ahh well iam other user too so i guess i can add it back in there you go m8

Current Compilation:
Habakkuk's Bow & Fury ZvA Guide V1.13d
Jesper's Zon Guide 1.13
Arelax’s Non-Ladder ZvZ Bowazon Guide
Darken99’s PvP .13 Tele Javazon (Legit)
~Damach Zon Guide~
Hackzone’s 1.13 Tri-hybrid Pv@ll Amazon Guide

Claw Basics
Bui’s Ghost Assassin Guide
TienJe's Ghost Assassin Guide v2.0
Bui’s Hybrid Assassin Guide
Legend's Trapper Guide
1.12 PvP/TvT Trapsin Guide
Testic's PvP Kicksin Guide

Ling's Barb Versus Caster Guide V1.2
Tudey's 1.12 Balanced Barbarian vs. Caster Guide
Luis' Bvc Guide
Public Barb Versus Barb Guide By Math

Sharkbites Rabies/fury Guide. -1.12
1.12 PvP 163/99 & maxblock elemental druid V. 3.0
1.13 Elemental Vita Druid Guide

Bui’s Poison and Bone Necromancer Guide
Erik's Pvp Bone Mancer Guide
Godest's Guide To The Poison Nova Necro V2.0
Summoner Guide 1.13

Bui’s Vindicator/Templar Paladin Guide
The Pvp Hammerdin Guide
Tienje & Halo273's Mage Paladin Guide V1.2
1.13 Elemental Auras Guide
The Zealot
Marvel's Tele Smiter Guide

V1.13 Gm Es Hybrid Blizzard Sorceress
DOH's SvS Lightning sorc Guide
Fireball Sorceress With Energy Shield
Dual Dream Enchantress Sorc

does anyone have a good guide for an orb sorc?

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I also refuted every point Voyaging made about this guide, staggering that you chose to remove it lol

Honestly his pvp strategy section was a bit lacking
That's the main reason it got deleted

The most important part of a pvp guide is indeed the strategy section
Anyone can build a build but not everyone can use it
A good guide absolutely needs a detailed pvp strategy section

yes but a super detailed strategy section isn't really going to make people learn new tactics (apart from maybe some real basic ones)
vids are like 1000x better at giving ideas how to play a specific matchup and most guides don't include those

I went over some really basic strategies, which is really all people can learn from a guide. Having optimal gear setup is pretty important becouse everyone can come up with strategies on their own if you just give them time, but most people are misinformed about optimal gear setups and how the weapon "Grief" works. All the other barbarian guides you have added seem to make use of the "Grief" setup. this means that anyone using these guides will not reach their true potential with the Barbarian. It's like having the best driver in the world driving a shitty car. He might have the "software" to be the best, but he doesn't have the "hardware" to let him reach his true potential. Now he might still be able to compete but he'll never be as good as he could be.

This post was edited by tudey on Mar 12 2012 04:43pm

read the strategies in Luis's guide again, you'll see they are no more detailed than those in tudey's guide, except tudey offers good setup options in his advice vs different builds and have 3 huge helpful hints that apply to all situations.

Yup, been ISO a new one for awhile




Yup and now we are in v1.13d so new guides needed to be written, here they are




Yup, that's why there are double guide postings for each of the more complicated builds but we only need the top two guides for any given build, to keep this list simple and easy to read
About the stickied guides, they are an amalgam of PvM and PvP and not every good guide is existant in the stickies (Arelax's ZvZ Specific guide as example) should be stickied but it is not
The objective of this thread, was to weed out PvM builds and leave only the mainstream *very effective* PvP builds in a list that was short, simple and easy to referance and read through

About *preferance* in D2 builds:
Mathematics dictate that there are indeed *right ways* and *wrong ways* to make a build
Argue with it all you want but Poison Dagger Necromancers will always lose to a Teleporting Smiter




Luis's guide is more defined in it's explination, it really is
Tudey suggests the use of Ethereal Death Cleaver (and I see why this is an alternative) but please explain to me how this is a better option than grief?
There are equations to show the EDC damage but there are none to show the GreifZ damage

Tudey says:
Ethereal Death Cleaver is what this whole build is about. You want to achieve insane damage limits and then Amplify that damage further by 100% Deadly Strike. Now here is the down fall. Whirlwind is based on the lead weapon, in this case it would be “Grief” versus Ethereal Death Cleaver as your lead weapon. Since the inherited mods of these items are only calculated by the lead weapon, the “Beast” does not receive the +400 damage from “Grief” nor the 66% Deadly Strike from the EDC. So, you only have 100% Deadly Strike on your lead weapon and +400 Damage on “Grief” side.

First of all.... what? This is not explaining why EDC is a better option than GriefZ


Here is what I see:



VS.




Lets make this short and sweet and only use weapon damage for this equation

Tudey suggests the use a 100% Deadly Strike build with the Death Cleaver that deals 136 - 400 damage
4 damage rolls for Tudey (averaged out) would look like this:
max --> 800
avg --> 543
min --> 272
((on the 4th we'll say he hits a perf avg again --> 543))
This is a total damage output over 4 strikes = 2158


But a Grief Z with +400 raw and a weapon damage of 26-78 equates to an effective 426-478 damage
With highlords (lets say at 35% deadly, with gores 10% and the 20% on Grief = 65% Deadly Strike)
But that's not all! because when you don't overboard with 100% Deadly Strike, the Critical Strike off weapon mastery does indeed factor in
Lets say the Axe Mastery is base lv 20 with a reasonable +skills from torch/anni and enigma, as well as battle command, this is lv 27 Axe Mastery (this isn't even factoring arreats or arachs)
The lv 27 Axe Mastery grants an additional 22% Critical Strike
So if the Deadly Strike hits 65% of the time and misses 35% of the time, this means that 35% of the time (on a failure of double dmg) you have an additional 22% chance to still deal double damage
This ultimately results in: 71.7% chance of dealing double damage ((((between critical and deadly))))

The Grief strikes declare that 3/4 hits will be double damage on a 426-478 weapon and 4 rolls would look like this:

max --> 956
avg --> 904
min --> 852
((now on the 4th, we'll say the double damage fails on an avg roll but due to grief's overwhelming raw weapon damage, it is a normal strike of 452))
This is a total damage output over 4 strikes = 3164
and it clearly deals more damage than an EDC

If you were to add in fanatacism auras, str bonus, ED, all that happy horseshit, this damage difference would be the same (fractions and percents) it would just make it exponentially larger to look at


The fact that he states *this build is completely based around EDC* is a serious fundamental flaw and it has nothing to do with (preferance), Tudey is mathematically wrong
And this is why his guide is being removed

Your math is wrong.

“Grief”, which is not affected by Damage Multipliers in any way, shape or form due to the +400 Damage being calculated after a full hit and then added after PvP penalties. It does not equate to an effective 426-478 damage. This is the major flaw with _your_ math. Where's the proof that "Grief" works the way you say it does? Post the proof please.

Feel free to look up any information on equations on Arreat Summit. It is all posted there and works exactly as stated in this guide. Learn the game before you question the math. As stated, these are directly copied off of Arreat Summit and calculated through the equations also posted on Arreat Summit. I even tested it through doing hits and figuring out the math per hit. My guide is 100% accurate on every calculation listed. Basically you just posted a comment saying that the creators of the game have their calculations Incorrect.

Again, read the guide.

Jeebus666, could you please tell us whose math is correct? Jeebus studies math so he will know this better than either one of us. If Jeebus says my math is wrong I guess I'll have to repeat my research to make sure I did not make a mistake. But I'm pretty sure my math is 100% accurate and Jeebus can probably confirm this.

This post was edited by tudey on Mar 13 2012 04:40am

Your Math is 100% correct, Habakkuk is using the flawed calculations for grief that you warned against and hence his calculations leads him to the popular misconception.

This post was edited by Jeebus666 on Mar 13 2012 05:01am

I posted one, with video of how to play.. U seem blind mate