I can try:

Traps:
Eias: ((120*ias)/(120+ias)) + SIAS - WSM - Slow
Frames: {16 / (1+(EIAS/100))-1}
{} = Round up

16 / (1+(78/100))-1 = 7,98887 aka 8 frames.

Which means 78 EIAS is next breakpoint.
Since we have both BOS and FANA i think we need some more:

16 / (1+(101/100)) - 1 = 6,96 aka 7 frames
16 / (1+(129/100)) - 1 = 5,986 aka 6 frames

So EIAS table is now(just the relevant)
EIAS // frames
34 // 11
46 // 10
61 // 9
78 // 8
101 // 7
129 // 6

To find ias needed to reach eias we use this formula:
IasNeeded = ROUNDUP((120*(EIAS - Skill_IAS + WSM))/(120-(EIAS - Skill_IAS + WSM))

Example, we aim for the 78 eias break. We use runic talon (-30wsm) and no bos/fana.

120 * (78-0+-30)/(120-(78-0+-30)) = 80ias needed to reach 8 fpa trap laying speed.

101eias:
174 ias needed to reach this with same scenario.

But lets say we use lvl 15 bos. 50 SIAS. +-30 = - 30wsm(shorten)
120 * (101-50-30)/(120-(101-50-30)) 24,45 aka 25 ias needed for 7frame trap laying with gt/runic and lvl 15 bos.

129eias, lvl 15bos, -30 wsm claw:
120 * (129-50-30)/(120-(129-50-30)) = 75 ias needed for 6fpa trap laying speed.

Hope this helps. I can try to figure out kicks tomorrow, its late for me now, and im on phone with phone calc etc xD

thanks for the help

can this be pushed further beyond 6fpa?
at the moment using treachery (45ias) and ias in helm and ss (30ias) and BoS (level 8 or 10)
soemtimes tossing on 20ias gloves and cats eye for testing although I want to avoid using them in the optimized setup.

and it appears when I use a 6x shael pb I hit a bp higher than if I was using a spirit pb.

trying to figure out what the limit is. and where the breakpoint is.
BoS being a bit variable depending on setup and GC usage kinda throws a wrench into just asking for breakpoints, so trying to figure out how I can calculate all this myself.

thank you for your help lets see if I can plug numbers in correctly lol


edit: and yes please help on dtalon when you get a chance.
if the 3f followup can be broken thats kinda huge.

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Oct 25 2021 04:24pm

Gel we need to get this plugged into an excel/Google spreadsheet so I can make an interface for it like the calcs of old.

I have a lot of it on excel on pc's. I have them in my mail and such.
But its kinda not made to easy for others to use xD im norwegian, so whatever Word is shorterst between the languish is used etc xD
If i Even bother using words xD



Yes i can do this on phone as well. But for dtalon/dragon claw i need to have time to check some stuff xD
And for other wep types i need to check some stuff as well, as im using a simplified formula here.
16*256/256 might be 11*208/256 on another wep or attack etc... So this "delay part" i must check, and its a little hard for me to understand which to use sometimes, so i must cross check that its correct with older eias tables etc which takes time.

167 eias is 5 frames breakpoint.

Level 40 bos = 57% SIAS
Lvl 15 bos = 50% SIAS
Lvl 10 bos = 45% SIAS

120 * (167-57-30)/(120-(167-57-30)) = 240 ias needed.

Lvl 15 fana = 33 SIAS

120 * (167-90-30)/(120-(167-90-30)) = 78ias needed for 5 frames.

So i would claim 5 frames is only reachable with bos + fana.

Okay, lets try Dragon talon:

Oki, so here are the old EIAS table:

Breakpoint for Initial Kick:
EIAS -- Frames
0 -- 12
9 -- 11
19 -- 10
31 -- 9
45 -- 8
63 -- 7

Breakpoint for follow up kicks:
EIAS -- Frames
0 -- 4
25 -- 3

EIAS = ROUNDDOWN((120*Ias)/(120+IAS);0)+Skillbonus-WSM
Ias needed = ROUNDUP((120*(EIAS - Skill_IAS + WSM))/(120-(EIAS - Skill_IAS + WSM):0)

Initial kick actually is last kick (info)

I assume initial kick follows regular frame calc:
Frames = 13 / (1+(EIAS/100)) - 1
(tested every d2lod break and this fits perfect)

And i assume follow up kicks, cut the animation early and also dont use -1.

Frames = SomethingLess / (1+(EIAS/100))
So this became worse to find out.
I came close with: ROUNDUP(3*256/(208*(1+(EIAS/100)));0)
But with that the breakpoint ended as 24 instead of 25 which table gave... I dno.. To few examples to verify. To little time to check stuff. Take follow up formula with a grain of salt. Usually i find capable number of 1 breakpoint fast, then when i check towards other breakpoints it dont fit anymore. But ill figure it out later.

I can try more later.

I try to continue:



Simplify it, since our EIAS is Already including WSM and SIAS.

AnimDuration = {(13 * 256) / [256 * (100+EIAS+30) / 100]}

This dont work with me.
And trying to swap 13 with other numbers dont help.
He claim its the same as werewolf fury serial attack, but on werewolf fury you dont need to add those 30WSM....


So my guess is that the correct formula for follow up kicks are:
=ROUNDUP(3*256/(208*(1+(EIAS/100)));0)
Or to be 100% excact:
=ROUNDUP(3*256/ROUNDDOWN(208*(1+(EIAS/100));0);0)

In that case you need 85EIAS to reach 2 frames follow up kicks.
102 ias with no bos/fana
5 ias with 50 skill ias

You need 270 EIAS to reach 1 frame. And how much ias to reach this seems bugged, so dont think its possible.

So to sum it up(i think its correct) :
85 EIAS = 7 frames initial and 2 frames follow up kicks.
86 EIAS = 6 frames initial and 2 frames follow up kicks.
117 EIAS = 5 frames initial and 2 frames follow up kicks.

50 Sias BOS LVL 15 and u need 54ias to reach 5/2/2/2/2
0 Sias and u need 105 ias to reach 6/2/2/2/2.

Formula:
Initial kick: =ROUNDUP(13/(1+(EIAS/100))-1;0)
Follow up kick: =ROUNDUP(3*256/ROUNDDOWN(208*(1+(EIAS/100));0);0)
EIAS =((120*IAS)/(120+IAS))+SIAS-WSM
IAS needed for EIAS =(120*(EIAS- SIAS + WSM))/(120-(EIAS - SIAS +WSM))

I noticed different breakpoints on follow up kicks on different old sides...

This post was edited by gel87 on Oct 26 2021 08:54am

hum, a lot to take in and sift through but gonna try to figure it out.

so by the looks of this I should be hitting 5/2 easily with my 6shael pb setup.
or even without it, should be hitting those trap speeds with treachery + helm ias jewel alone, gonna see if this matches up visually to my different ias setups

any chance you can tell me what these bps would be looking like with wizardspike (-20wsm) and lacerator (-10wsm)?

gonna try to refollow your formulas but I admit Im a bit intimidated trying to figure out the values myself lol, not sure if I'm gonna get this right.


This post was edited by Ziecheik on Oct 26 2021 03:01pm

yes, for kick that is true... Due to this table:


For other types of attack speeds you might not be that lucky when changing WEP type.

We found 13 via this list for initial kick.

For follow up we need to include rollback:
Serial Kicks got 50% rollback animation.
13/2 * 0,5
Or to be excact: =ROUNDDOWN(13/2;0) * (Rollback%/100)
Which gives us 3 frames pr direction for follow up kicks.

Also, my old stormlash build will with level 14 bos reach:

117EIAS break, 5/2/2/2 frames as i use kickserie of 4.
113 ias needed with -10 wsm base and lvl 14 bos.

Stormlash 45ias
Stormshield 15ias
Guilaume 15ias
Cb gloves 20ias
=95
So prior to infinity i use reapers merc, and can use highlord ammu.
=115

When a stormlash sin gets his infinity merc we do this for kickspeed:
95ias + nosferatus = 105ias.
Lvl 16 bos need 105ias excact.

None bos:
We keep to the 63EIAS break, where we need 95ias.

Seems like Stormlash w/16BoS is 7/2 off the bat. Add 2 IAS and you're 6/2. Slapping on 70 more for that 1 frame seems excessive, but I appreciate the illustration of the maximum.

But it brings up a good point on DTalon level though. I use to run a 4 kick series, because of NHAM and wasted kicks if the first kick kills (burn 15 frames). Now you'll only burn a fraction and NHAM is somewhat improved apparently. For PvM, might as well pump it up to 30 for 6 speedy kicks!

I did some quick excelulating and it looks like my old 100CB/2k kicksin could take down P8 Baal in 8 seconds flat with a 6/2. Also, a Riftsin w/ 6/2 could average a Frozen Orb in 16.6 frames, which is just about twice as fast as a Sorc at 29-32 frames. Rift, by the bye, would be a good way to test these breakpoints.

This post was edited by Clervis on Oct 31 2021 09:56am