d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Official Anti-capitalistic Brainstorm Thread
Prev11213141516Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 4,196
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 59.69
Warn: 10%
Sep 29 2020 01:56pm
Quote (proccy @ Sep 29 2020 09:50pm)
No no it's just because nobody has practiced Marx properly yet like you said


Ohh.. How does this come? No communication between countrys? Patent rights?

Tell me, how does no one really thought about this oportunity?




And for gods sake, dont tell me its capitalisms fault.....
Member
Posts: 4,196
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 59.69
Warn: 10%
Sep 29 2020 01:58pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 29 2020 09:55pm)
You asked a question, I answered it, and now you dodge? Typical.



Absolutely. When you remove private property rights and arbitrarily dictate that everyone receives the same results regardless of effort, nobody has any incentive to put in any effort. Production doesn't remain the same or increase, it falls flat. Hence things like mandatory employment laws. Mandatory employment laws force labor involuntarily. Involuntary labor is the definition of slavery. :)



LOL.


Bro, read the definiton of communism please... NOT talking about socialism!!!

Read Post #1 please thanks
Member
Posts: 20,758
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 6,376.70
Sep 29 2020 02:15pm
Quote (Bananii @ Sep 29 2020 12:58pm)
Bro, read the definiton of communism please... NOT talking about socialism!!!

Read Post #1 please thanks


I live in the real world. Anarcho-Communism does not and will not ever exist at a societal level. EVERY attempt at communism turns into a Dictatorship. Every single one. It's not a question of "But we'll do it better!" it's a question of human nature. In the end, your attempt at communism will either turn into the USSR, or a strong party will swoop in to seize control once you've collapsed the systems that're currently in place to stop them and you end up with another Nazi Germany. So which do you prefer? Overwhelming socialist government, or overwhelming dictatorship? Dictatorship owns all means of production period, enforces it's will, all citizens are slaves to the state. Socialist, still have some privately owned means of production, but government swallows up all the profits of the private sector (and more), dictates down to the minute detail everything that can or cannot be done and how it's to be done using those private means of production.

Communism of the sort you're thinking of can and has worked throughout the ages, but now you're talking about small tribal units or incredibly small communities. Everyone knows each other, and they're mostly cut off from outside interference. When you start talking about nations with hundreds of millions of people, it breaks down REALLY fast.
Member
Posts: 4,196
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 59.69
Warn: 10%
Sep 29 2020 02:26pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 29 2020 10:15pm)
I live in the real world. Anarcho-Communism does not and will not ever exist at a societal level. EVERY attempt at communism turns into a Dictatorship. Every single one. It's not a question of "But we'll do it better!" it's a question of human nature. In the end, your attempt at communism will either turn into the USSR, or a strong party will swoop in to seize control once you've collapsed the systems that're currently in place to stop them and you end up with another Nazi Germany. So which do you prefer? Overwhelming socialist government, or overwhelming dictatorship? Dictatorship owns all means of production period, enforces it's will, all citizens are slaves to the state. Socialist, still have some privately owned means of production, but government swallows up all the profits of the private sector (and more), dictates down to the minute detail everything that can or cannot be done and how it's to be done using those private means of production.

Communism of the sort you're thinking of can and has worked throughout the ages, but now you're talking about small tribal units or incredibly small communities. Everyone knows each other, and they're mostly cut off from outside interference. When you start talking about nations with hundreds of millions of people, it breaks down REALLY fast.


Bro please, dont tell me socialism is a failed communism.. There was no real communism yet, its 'just' capitalistic socialism, how can you say that real communism doesnt work? And if im talking about communism, im not talking about any systematic 'try' of this system, im talking about a 'real' communism which has to be created on the right way right now. Ever thouht about the fact that the WHOLE world is online now? Introduce a worldwide communistic system without patent rights and no compound interest?
No, coz youre lifestyle exist just due robbery and Slavery. I know its hard for you to accept that you (also me! As german western culture) profit due a corrupt system scamming others to be on top..
But you can try. Just imagine...
Member
Posts: 20,758
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 6,376.70
Sep 29 2020 02:37pm
Quote (Bananii @ Sep 29 2020 01:26pm)
Bro please, dont tell me socialism is a failed communism.. There was no real communism yet, its 'just' capitalistic socialism, how can you say that real communism doesnt work? And if im talking about communism, im not talking about any systematic 'try' of this system, im talking about a 'real' communism which has to be created on the right way right now. Ever thouht about the fact that the WHOLE world is online now? Introduce a worldwide communistic system without patent rights and no compound interest?
No, coz youre lifestyle exist just due robbery and Slavery. I know its hard for you to accept that you (also me! As german western culture) profit due a corrupt system scamming others to be on top..
But you can try. Just imagine...


The USSR was real communism. Hell, North Korea is real communism.

You talk about an unrealistic idea, and refuse to believe that it can't happen. "Is not possible" is the term you need.

Communism can't work because very few people are willing to work if they don't get anything more than they do by not working. Nobody wants to clean toilets if they can play video games instead. In the end, you run not only into supply issues, you run into supply line issues. Keeping cities fed becomes virtually impossible without pressing people into work. In order to press people into work, you need to utilize some form of security force, such as a military. Any military structure is going to have a leadership. Whoever the ultimate leader is is invariably going to take over the attempt at a communist state. This is simple human nature. The Soviet Union was not an accident.

There may come a point one day where all the basic resources (food, shelter, clothes, electronics, power, transport, etc.) are all 100% automated. If the world gets to that point, communism (of the kind you wish for), might actually follow. Until then, it's just a failed religion worshipped by people with their heads in the clouds and those who desperately want to step into the "dictator" slot.
Member
Posts: 33,860
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Gold: 633.87
Sep 29 2020 02:38pm
Quote (Bananii @ Sep 29 2020 04:26pm)
Bro please, dont tell me socialism is a failed communism.. There was no real communism yet, its 'just' capitalistic socialism, how can you say that real communism doesnt work? And if im talking about communism, im not talking about any systematic 'try' of this system, im talking about a 'real' communism which has to be created on the right way right now. Ever thouht about the fact that the WHOLE world is online now? Introduce a worldwide communistic system without patent rights and no compound interest?
No, coz youre lifestyle exist just due robbery and Slavery. I know its hard for you to accept that you (also me! As german western culture) profit due a corrupt system scamming others to be on top..
But you can try. Just imagine...


He has already answered your question. Communism is an ideology in conflict with basic human nature. It is not an accident that every attempt to implement communism devolves into the socialistic, often genocidal, dictatorships that are the plague of the human race.
Member
Posts: 4,196
Joined: Jun 5 2020
Gold: 59.69
Warn: 10%
Sep 29 2020 02:48pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 29 2020 10:37pm)
The USSR was real communism. Hell, North Korea is real communism.

You talk about an unrealistic idea, and refuse to believe that it can't happen. "Is not possible" is the term you need.

Communism can't work because very few people are willing to work if they don't get anything more than they do by not working. Nobody wants to clean toilets if they can play video games instead. In the end, you run not only into supply issues, you run into supply line issues. Keeping cities fed becomes virtually impossible without pressing people into work. In order to press people into work, you need to utilize some form of security force, such as a military. Any military structure is going to have a leadership. Whoever the ultimate leader is is invariably going to take over the attempt at a communist state. This is simple human nature. The Soviet Union was not an accident.

There may come a point one day where all the basic resources (food, shelter, clothes, electronics, power, transport, etc.) are all 100% automated. If the world gets to that point, communism (of the kind you wish for), might actually follow. Until then, it's just a failed religion worshipped by people with their heads in the clouds and those who desperately want to step into the "dictator" slot.


Alright we get closer. Even i have to tell you that those states are still socislistc not communistic, even TV tells you otherwise.

So we have to discuss problems like this until "that" day comes? Or we start discuss how to invent such a peacefull system in the world right now? :)
Member
Posts: 20,758
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 6,376.70
Sep 29 2020 02:51pm
Quote (Bananii @ Sep 29 2020 01:48pm)
Alright we get closer. Even i have to tell you that those states are still socislistc not communistic, even TV tells you otherwise.

So we have to discuss problems like this until "that" day comes? Or we start discuss how to invent such a peacefull system in the world right now? :)


You cannot invent such a system in the world right now. Gonna just go ahead and quote bogie's concise summary of the answers I've already provided.

Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 29 2020 01:38pm)
He has already answered your question. Communism is an ideology in conflict with basic human nature. It is not an accident that every attempt to implement communism devolves into the socialistic, often genocidal, dictatorships that are the plague of the human race.
Member
Posts: 8,439
Joined: Dec 27 2019
Gold: 69.69
Warn: 30%
Sep 29 2020 09:27pm
Quote (Leevee @ Jul 12 2020 04:26am)
See, this is just lazy and makes your defense for capitalism hold no credibility whatsoever.
Capitalism is designed in such a way that anyone who chooses not to participate will be homeless, and forced to eat out of trash cans or die out of starvation. Don't fool yourself into thinking that people have a choice about it.


If you dont want to contrbute. Don't expect handouts or freeload. I do believe capitalism is imperfect system and can be improved but it also keeps the parasites on their toes. In a tribal scenario for instance unless you were genuinely incapable of contributing your share then the sum would take care of its parts but if you are a leech you get some sense beaten into you, or exile.
Member
Posts: 21,945
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 6.66
Sep 29 2020 09:41pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 29 2020 01:37pm)
The USSR was real communism. Hell, North Korea is real communism.


What about North Korea speaks to "real communism"?
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev11213141516Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll