d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Science, Technology & Nature > Ketogenic Diet > Scientific Discussion And Blog
Prev1212223242532Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 9,614
Joined: Apr 23 2008
Gold: 268.15
Sep 14 2018 07:05am
Your brain can be fed with only two things: carbohydrates and ketone bodies.
Your brain can't be fed with fat directly. And your liver can transform fat into ketone bodies.





If you don't eat carbohydrates, your liver will have to:
• transform fat into Acetyl-Coa (lipolysis)
• transform Acetyl-Coa into ketone bodies (ketogenesis)

This is the only way for your body to feed your brain.
Lipolysis + Ketogenesis




If a person with a normal alimentation stops eating for several weeks, he/she will first use his/her carbohydrates then, after several days, he/she will use his/her fat.

If your body has access to carbohydrates & fat, your body preferes using carbohydrates.

There is no scientific proof yet that eating only fat decrease your capacities, but it could be.

Overweight is due to poor nutrition or psychological disorders.
Eating only fat is sometimes a good idea, if you really need to lose weight. But it's not a long-term solution for humanity.

This post was edited by Chevaucheur on Sep 14 2018 07:12am
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Sep 15 2018 01:21am
Quote (Chevaucheur @ Sep 14 2018 07:05am)
Your brain can be fed with only two things: carbohydrates and ketone bodies.
Your brain can't be fed with fat directly. And your liver can transform fat into ketone bodies.

https://i.imgur.com/QhK0ejS.png

https://i.imgur.com/C4QPCeH.png

If you don't eat carbohydrates, your liver will have to:
• transform fat into Acetyl-Coa (lipolysis)
• transform Acetyl-Coa into ketone bodies (ketogenesis)

This is the only way for your body to feed your brain.
Lipolysis + Ketogenesis




If a person with a normal alimentation stops eating for several weeks, he/she will first use his/her carbohydrates then, after several days, he/she will use his/her fat.

If your body has access to carbohydrates & fat, your body preferes using carbohydrates.

There is no scientific proof yet that eating only fat decrease your capacities, but it could be.

Overweight is due to poor nutrition or psychological disorders.
Eating only fat is sometimes a good idea, if you really need to lose weight. But it's not a long-term solution for humanity.


The enzymes which promote fat storage are inhibited by excess fats. It's this way so they don't immediately store fat after it's been released in the cell.

Those enzymes are also activated by carbohydrates and carbohydrate byproducts.

It's hard to get fat by eating fats for this reason, and it's excessively easy to get fat by eating sugar, more specifically it's very easy to get fat by eating fructose.



Also, if you really want to get into the weeds, your body also uses fat in gluconeogenesis to maintain blood sugar, and produce ketones as a secondary product if it can't make enough glucose.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 15 2018 01:23am
Member
Posts: 9,614
Joined: Apr 23 2008
Gold: 268.15
Sep 15 2018 03:54am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 15 2018 09:21am)
The enzymes which promote fat storage are inhibited by excess fats. It's this way so they don't immediately store fat after it's been released in the cell.

Those enzymes are also activated by carbohydrates and carbohydrate byproducts.

It's hard to get fat by eating fats for this reason, and it's excessively easy to get fat by eating sugar, more specifically it's very easy to get fat by eating fructose.



Also, if you really want to get into the weeds, your body also uses fat in gluconeogenesis to maintain blood sugar, and produce ketones as a secondary product if it can't make enough glucose.


This is called allosteric regulation.
Allosteric regulation is not very powerful in lipogenesis.
There is only one enzyme that is inhibited by the long chains of fatty acids: Acetyl-Coa Carboxylase.

https://www.news-medical.net/life-sciences/Lipogenesis-Control-and-Regulation.aspx



Moreover, if the lipocytes do not capture the fatty acids, it means that they remain in the blood.
If you have fatty acids in your blood, then your blood is acidified, and this can cause joint problems (arthritis).
If you go to the doctor, and you tell him that you have a burning sensation somewhere in your body, he will prescribe an Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug (NSAID).

NSAIDs are dangerous molecules.

This post was edited by Chevaucheur on Sep 15 2018 03:57am
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Sep 15 2018 05:16am
Quote (Chevaucheur @ Sep 15 2018 03:54am)
This is called allosteric regulation.
Allosteric regulation is not very powerful in lipogenesis.
There is only one enzyme that is inhibited by the long chains of fatty acids: Acetyl-Coa Carboxylase.

https://www.news-medical.net/life-sciences/Lipogenesis-Control-and-Regulation.aspx

Moreover, if the lipocytes do not capture the fatty acids, it means that they remain in the blood.
If you have fatty acids in your blood, then your blood is acidified, and this can cause joint problems (arthritis).
If you go to the doctor, and you tell him that you have a burning sensation somewhere in your body, he will prescribe an Nonsteroidal Anti-Inflammatory Drug (NSAID).

NSAIDs are dangerous molecules.


You are incorrect that only one enzyme is inhibited. Fatty acid synthetase, ATP citrate lyase are also inhibited but yes, carboxylase is the prime regulator of fatty acid synthesis. The point though is that you will be less fat eating equal calories of fat than you would eating equal calories of sugar, and that ketone bodies aren't an issue for most people with normally functioning insulin response.

Also fatty acids in your blood are not going to acidify your blood to any notable level.
Member
Posts: 9,614
Joined: Apr 23 2008
Gold: 268.15
Sep 15 2018 01:46pm
Quote
Both acetoacetic acid and beta-hydroxybutyric acid are acidic, and, if levels of these ketone bodies are too high, the pH of the blood drops, resulting in ketoacidosis, a complication of untreated Type I diabetes, and sometimes in end stage Type II (see diabetic ketoacidosis).


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ketone_bodies#Impact_upon_pH
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Sep 15 2018 04:09pm
Quote (Chevaucheur @ Sep 15 2018 01:46pm)


Ketone bodies aren't lipids. You should know that...
Member
Posts: 9,614
Joined: Apr 23 2008
Gold: 268.15
Sep 15 2018 04:18pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 15 2018 09:21am)
The enzymes which promote fat storage are inhibited by excess fats. It's this way so they don't immediately store fat after it's been released in the cell.

Those enzymes are also activated by carbohydrates and carbohydrate byproducts.

It's hard to get fat by eating fats for this reason, and it's excessively easy to get fat by eating sugar, more specifically it's very easy to get fat by eating fructose.



Also, if you really want to get into the weeds, your body also uses fat in gluconeogenesis to maintain blood sugar, and produce ketones as a secondary product if it can't make enough glucose.



Gluconeogenesis happens especially when you stop eating for a long while.
If you eat fat, your liver will produce a lot of ketone bodies.

Moreover, op is diabetic.
There is a real risk for him to have acidified blood.

This post was edited by Chevaucheur on Sep 15 2018 04:21pm
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Sep 15 2018 04:36pm
Quote (Chevaucheur @ Sep 15 2018 04:18pm)
Gluconeogenesis happens especially when you stop eating for a long while.
If you eat fat, your liver will produce a lot of ketone bodies.

Moreover, op is diabetic.
There is a real risk for him to have acidified blood.


Yeah, op needs to monitor, but as long as your insulin response is adequate your body will make glucose from fat instead of ketone bodies, and the excess fat will inhibit fat storage.
Member
Posts: 9,614
Joined: Apr 23 2008
Gold: 268.15
Sep 15 2018 06:00pm
It requires glucagon for your your liver to produce glucose.

And it requires Acetyl-Coa for your liver to produce ketone bodies (there are always Acetyl-Coa molecules in your cells, either when you eat either when you do not eat).

While you eat, you create a lot of Acetyl-Coa and therefore a lot of ketone bodies.
That could cause an acidosis.

But around the meals, ureogenesis is stimulated, and that creates an alcalosis instead.

So, if you do not pee and eat a lot, you may have an acidosis.
If you do not eat for a long time and don't pee, you may have an acidosis.

If you do not eat for a long time, your liver do not produce glucose anymore, and your brain will mostly use ketone acids.
That significates more catabolism & more ketone acids in your blood.



Here are two advises for op:
Do not hold your pee
And do not stop eating for a long time (3+ days)



If you eat a lot, you will have a lot of Acetyl-Coa.
But given the fact you have low glucagon levels, you won't produce a lot of ketone acids.

This post was edited by Chevaucheur on Sep 15 2018 06:29pm
Member
Posts: 33,509
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,617.52
Sep 16 2018 12:39am
My A1C is very good for a diabetic like 6.5, and the average is like 9 or something (lower is better). Don't worry about muh health though thanks.
Go Back To Science, Technology & Nature Topic List
Prev1212223242532Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll