This is because most ppl do not have 200 str....think about it as maximizing area....if you have 400 meters of fence ....maximizing would be 100 by 100 square, not a 150 by 50 right? Well the same goes for STR and EE...if you already have 200 EE but only 100 STR then you would maximize your damage by adding STR not EE (Since you want to get it closer to equilibrium, not further away)

These instances should help anyone who doesnt want to do the calculations

If you have Even STR/EE (example 100 EE & 100 STR) then adding to either would be an even upgrade...add str or add ee, or better yet, add even amount of both
But at this point 1 STR = 1 EE

If you have more STR than EE (example 50 EE & 100 STR) then in order to maximize your upgrade, you would want to get more EE on your weapon
At this point 1 STR < 1 EE

If you have more EE than STR (example 100 EE & 50 STR) then in order to maximize your upgrade, you want to get more STR on your character (through charm/armor/weapon)
At this point 1 STR is actually > 1 EE!

Since many ppl have High EE weapons, and not as much str (unless they have godly unspawnables in SC ) this is the main reason why adding STR at the high lvls, when you have really high EE weapons, would increase your damage more than adding more EE

Hope this helps ppl

And @ Dragon_Reborn : Idk if it was one of your threads a while ago or not, but i read this somewhere and have been using it every time i think about buying something to check how much of an upgrade it is.....seems to be accurate to <1% off...which is amazing since we dont have the code that Paul used
keep up the good work!!!!

Edit: yep...it was you http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=14522638&f=272 all i know is that i was going to write a guide since I couldnt find this...but i guess you beat me to it by bumping this thread. lol....but thats good because i was going to try to give credit to you anyway, even though i couldnt remember who wrote it lol

This post was edited by mfmage on May 18 2008 05:48pm

you still have to take into account the .95 vs 1.0 difference
so you're not going even str and ee in this case to make your area the largest
to maximize you would need 5str more than your ee
its simple but still worth pointing out

I believe this to be incorrect....im sorry, but in my testing so far, i find them to be even

(Base damage) * ((100+Str)/100)*((100+EE)/100)

its not 100% yet...im sure im missing something but i have never been more than 1% off and never more than 3 damage off...and thats only with high damage situations

This post was edited by mfmage on May 18 2008 06:24pm

So I'm assuming that there was, yet again, no conclusion reached? I'll throw in my two cents--

If the base damage of a weapon is low, I've found STR to be as or more effective than EE. Say a level 0 item.

a high level item, EE is way more valuable. More base damage = more EE effectiveness.

@ mfmage's first post
You are indeed correct, and you understood my post 100% You put it very nicely, and it's easy to read. This is what people need to see

@jbpellerin's post
And you pointed out the last finite detail that he missed, and I didn't have at the time of making that post.
You are indeed correct in saying that the best combination is gained by having 5 more str than ee

@mfmage's 2nd post
What jbpellerin pointed out is indeed correct. I've done very close testing. Just look @ squiggle's example above. using my way I get the correct damage (always round down)..
for ee: 1.ee multiplier ( 1 + str/100 )
for str: 1.str-0.05 multiplier ( 0.95 + str/100 )

@knight77's post
The assumption that ee is more valuable at higher levels is not true, except for one point worth mentioning (if you're very neat about it)
if you have 3.99 damage on a lvl 0 weapon, that is still just 3 damage.
if you have 39.9 damage on a higher weapon, that is 39 damage..

for lower weapons you might lose damage because this doesn't show. I can't say for sure that your actual damage while fighing isn't 3.99, or 39.9.. this may be the case, but I don't know that ^^
And I think I can safely say that a conclusion has been reached now, regarding str/ee and damage calculations



Squiggle will be working on a java script for this. Will be interesting to see

sounds interested

based on the formula can u provided a mathematical reason why this is teh case based on the formula

sorry the "nerd" in me is coming out LOL

and i cant be bothered thinking of the reason

Formula i guess is thsi

Yeah, you quoted the right formula.
I can try and give an easy mathematic (nerd)explanation as to why it is so.

You can write the formula like this:

TD = Tierfactors here (basedamage) * Str factors here * Ee factors here

that's an easy way.. looking at it you get this equation:

TD = t * s * e
t=tier
s=str
e=ee

here we see three different factors, that together make a product.

let's say you have about 30 of these factor products combined, in three different scenarios:

TD = 30 * 1 * 1
TD = 20 * 10 * 1
TD = 10 * 10 * 10

Can you predict which will give the largest product? The one with the most balanced stats will (just as with mfmage's explanation about "maximazing area")

This post was edited by Dragon_Reborn on May 18 2008 07:39pm

Well said....i think I like your way of explaining better.....though they are the same


If you would like more empirical data, i would be more than happy to help you with it, that way you can get the data to Squiggle and we can all have a Program to calculate exact damage (I do the calculations in my head or on a calculator, but im sure many who dont understand the formula that well would love the idea of inputing the data (item type, tier, STR, EE) and getting out the exact damage the weapon would do.....it would help those thinking about upgrading their STR gear, or getting a higher EE weapon, and decide whether it is worth the fg investment

This post was edited by mfmage on May 18 2008 07:54pm

yes I agree this would be a nice addition.. This is exactly what squiggle is working on in java script /he said.. I don't know how to work with it, so I'd need somebody else to do it..

It would help alot of people out there, I'm sure.

lol...yea i was saying I was working with Squiggle already....and we would love to test your data...and im betting it is right, because we have always been a little over...so 95 for str makes sense

thanks man