*/This is a re-repost - tweaked the guide, and fixed a formula\*
old post here: http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=14485765&f=272



Formula 1:
Relative damage = weapon's tier (1-14) * [ 1 + (str/100) ] * [ 1 + (ee/100) ]

Formula 2:
ee of a weapon/charm in a different tier = [ Tier x / Tier y * ( 100 + ee ) ] - 100
x = actual tier the weapon/charm has
y = the tier you want to compare with



My guildleader and friend wanted me to write a guide about this, since he thinks this may be helpful to many of you out there!

Therefore I am writing this inclusive guide in hopes of it actually helping some of you, maybe even alot (allways allowed to be positive, eh?)..



Do you need to read on? First read this:

Imagine you have a melee rouge lvl 71.

base stats are (ofc, doh!):
30 str
130 dex

after charm and armor, you have:
30 str
200 dex

Which of the following two weapons would you equip, when you only know the stats?

#1 - lvl 55 200 ee
#2 - lvl 55 140 ee / 50 str

Think on this before you read on, and ask yourself. Are you really sure how strength works to calculate overall damage?

..
..
..
...
....
....
....
.....Thought on it?

you came to the conclusion that.. easy! str equals about 1ee, that makes #2 about 190ee, and not as good as #1 that afterall have an insane 200ee!!

Then you should definitely read on!



First I would like to say: I will not include dexterity in explaining this damage formula, as everybody knows that the more dex -> more and bigger crits -> the better
But I will explain a little about the importance of the attribute strength.

To calculate what damage a weapon will give, and this is 99-100% correct, I use this formula:

base dmg of weapon * [ 1 + (str/100) ] * [ 1 + (ee/100) ]

To make this formula easier to use, I have developed another formula which you can use to calculate different tier set-ups against eachother.
Keep in mind that this formula will not show the actual damage you will give, but rather the relative damage compared to other weapons (which is what you really are after)!
Therefor you should always stick to this formula:


Relative damage formula:
weapon's tier (1-14) * [ 1 + (str/100) ] * [ 1 + (ee/100) ]


Now, back to the original question. which of the above weapons is the best?
Easy to figure out, we use my relative damage formula on them:

step 1 - Insert the weapon tier:
Lvl req 1: tier 1-3 (remember there are three different tiers here)
Lvl req 5: tier 4
Lvl req 10: tier 5
Lvl req 15: tier 6
Lvl req 20: tier 7
Lvl req 25: tier 8
Lvl req 30: tier 9
Lvl req 35: tier 10
Lvl req 40: tier 11
Lvl req 45: tier 12
Lvl req 50: tier 13
Lvl req 55: tier 14
step 2 - Solve everything inside these paranteses ( xx / 100 ) - divide strength and ee by 100
step 3 - Solve everything inside these paranteses [ 1 + x.xx ] - add 1 + the numbers you get from step 2
step 4 - Multiply the three numbers you get in step 3 ( tier * x.xx * x.xx )

#1 - lvl 55 200 ee
tier=14
str=30 (always include strength on all your items + base)
ee=200
14 * [ 1 + (30/100) ] * [ 1 + (200/100) ] =
14 * [ 1 + 0,3 ] * [ 1 + 2 ]
14 * 1,3 * 3 = 54,6

#2 - lvl 55 140 ee / 50 str
tier=14
str=80 (again, always include strength on all your items + base!)
ee=140
14 * [ 1 + (80/100) ] * [ 1 + (140/100) ] =
14 * [ 1 + 0,8 ] * [ 1 ' 1,4 ] =
14 * 1,8 * 2,4 = 60,48


wait, stop a minute. Am I sure this formula is correct?
It shows that the 140ee/50str weapon did more damage than the first one, with 200ee? I was sure that 1ee ~ 1str?
Actually to have a lvl55, pure ee weapon to equal the 140ee/50str one, you would need a weapon with 232ee!!! There went that 1ee~1str rule.
Yes, I am very sure this formula is correct, since i have tested it myself with different setups, and every time it has been correct.

Choosing weapon #2 over #1, will give you an overall damage increase of: ( 60,48 / 54,6 ) = 1,108 = 10,8 %


Do you want to kill your enemy 10,8 % faster?
Of course!

Is it worth doing a little extra calculation before deciding which items to buy, and thus wear?
That is up to you to decide.

But does strength work together with dexterity on critical hits?
yes, and that is just why strength may be more important than you thought!




Important stuff to think about while using this formula:

# After using these formulas for a while, you can start adding up in your head, and only do only the final step on the calculator!
# Keep in mind that this is the relative damage of the weapon compared to any other weapon in the game. That is the sweat thing about this formula. You can compare an axe against a sword, and the relative damage will tell you which one will give you the best damage over time. Sweet!
# Strength works together with ee, while calculating the damage you give, but critical hits is by far the most important offense for a melee character, and you should always make dexterity your number #1 priority. I am not telling you to ditch dex for strength!
# The more enhanced effect you have on your weapon, the greater will strength contribute to your overall damage. Having 150 strength doesn't help alot if you don't have enhanced effect on your weapon. This works the other way around as well small strength (30) and big ee (200) is not the best setup. Trying to balance your strength and ee may be a good idea.
# This formula can be used on charms with ee, just don't factor in the strength. Probably you can use the exact same formula for charms if you calculate with intelligence instead of strength (not tested, but I don't see why not)
# Try using this formula to see how good a weapon is, compared to one of a different tier. I have seen many people who have calculated this wrong. I will give you an example of how to do this:


picture yourself using a lvl 35 fighter with 68 strength (after charm and armor):
you use a - 130 ee lvl req 20 weapon

you wonder if you should buy one of these items
- lvl 35, 90 ee
- lvl 35, 83 ee / 21 strength

simple, using my relative damage formula:
#1: 7 (lvl 20 is tier 7) * [ 1 + (68/100) ] * [ 1 + (130/100) ] = 7 * 1,68 * 2,3 = 27,05
#2: 10 (lvl 35 is tier 10) * 1,68 * 1,9 = 31,92
#3: 10 * 1,89 (68str+21 from weapon) * 1,83 = 34,59

Keep in mind that this is relative damage, but it will show you your overall dmg increase:
#2: 31,92 / 27,05 = 1,180 = 18 % increase in damage
#3: 34,59 / 27,05 = 1,279 = 27,9 % increase in damage

Are the weapons worth buying?
Well, at least now you know how they will do compared to your old one.
Also keep in mind wether you will change any of your other gear, as changes in strength will affect your damage!




Also an easy way to check what enhanced effect a weapon/charm of a given tier "has" compared to another tier:

ee of weapon/charm in a different tier = [ Tier x / Tier y * ( 100 + ee ) ] - 100
x = actual tier the weapon/charm has
y = the tier you want to compare with

An example:

You want to see if a lvl req 40, 150 ee charm, is better than a lvl req 55, 100 ee charm
You use my formula to see what ee the tier XI charm would have had in tier XIV:

ee of charm (x) = 150
tier x = 11
tier y = 14
11 / 14 * (100 + 150 ) = 196,4
196,4 - 100 (have to retract the base damage) = 96,4 ee

The lvl req 40 charm with 150 ee, equals in damage a lvl req 55, 96,4 ee charm
conclusion: the req 55 charm is better damagewise, but only with about 4 ee.





I hope this helped some of you guys, and even cleared up some misunderstandings.
The formula(s) gets really easy to use after you have get used to them!
I greatly appreciate any kind of feedback, and if the mod(s) deem it appropriate, maybe even a sticky.

This post was edited by Dragon_Reborn on Jan 24 2008 07:25am

this is some gozu stuff mate

thanks for posting it.. i will be refering to it a lot now

vote for sticky

Me too but why were the old topic closed ? So useful ...

Thanks for kind comments guys.
I really hope many more people will benefit from this.

alex, the old topic was closed because I wanted to make this guide as perfect as I could.
I pmed paparick to close the old topic, and made this new one + the second formula had a big error I forgot ^^

I hope this gets stickied into the Guides for new players who have these very concerns, nice job.

First of all, (at least from season 2 and above) str/vit always increased .97 EE per point and not 1. Int increased 1.05 EE per point.

To be honest, this guide is WAY too long for such a small info.

Isn't this easier to read and shorter? It's sorta almost the same you have...



Source:
http://ragnarok.lilfade.com/LSv9.txt
http://forums.d2jsp.org/index.php?showtopic=3827582&f=272

Actually it does kind of show the same info, but it made a lot of people to thinking that 1 str = 0,97 ee..
It says that in the guide, but looking at it from a mathematic perspective. No, strength is not 0,97ee, and int is not 1.05 ee, because the formula treat str*0,97 for itself and basedmg*ee=permdmg for itself, and then multiply with eachother.
The reason why the guide is somewhat long is to try to explain the difference (like difference between 140ee/50str and 200ee)

Also while 4.2 Enhanced Effect Comparison above is correct, it make some people I have seen calculate ee on charms/weapons wrong, so I tried writing a correct formula to do this.
ie: some people can say:
a tier XI 200ee charm, equals a tier XIV 150-27.3=122,7 ee charm (because from above you need 27,3ee on a tier XI charm to "reach" tier XIV)
I've seen somebody do this, and this is very wrong indeed.
Because from above I actually got: [ 11 / 14 * (100 + 150 ) ] - 100 = 96,4

Also one other important thing: You can use my formulas without knowing the perm links and damage of every weapon/charm ingame. Now that perm link is gone, you can find out what you need to know correctly with these two formulas

This post was edited by Dragon_Reborn on Jan 24 2008 09:28pm

Huh? It's EASY to predict the perm link damage since I have all the base damage on my guide. Perm link damage = base damage + EE = new damage...

true enough. was early when I wrote that.. you mean base dmg * ( 100 + ee ) right?

But still I have seen alot of people underestemating strength, thinking it is actually 0,97 ee.. which it is not. you wrote yourself that it increased damage of weapon by 0,97% per point.. and damage of weapon is ee AND base dmg, so that means that str increases ee by roughly 0,97 as well as base right.
But I agree the guide is long.. I am looking for this kind of feedback as well -> postivie critic

But I agree that your guide is easily enough to calculate everything you need, if you can do a little math on yourself.

STICKY!!