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Mar 28 2024 11:13am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 04:59pm)
You are either very stupid or a troll. im not sure. but i can agree to being exhausted. lets just go back to ignoring each other (read: me ignoring you and you repeatedly tagging me).


Cute edit. Lets just continue with you trying to control the narrative without actually debating or substantiating anything.

I'll continue calling you out and making a fool of that behaviour.
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Mar 28 2024 11:46am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 06:09pm)
Reported of course.

Whenever pressed you can't even backup your own view with theory or evidence. Get the adults back in the room.



Russia already controlled Crimea before the full scale invasion.
What threat is NATO to ethnic Russians in Ukraine? Russians live perfectly normal lives in NATO countries.

Is it not the case, that this invasion is about sphere of influence and expansionism far more than it is about security?


You're curb stomping your own argument and you didn't even notice it :thumbsup:
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Mar 28 2024 11:50am
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 05:46pm)
You're curb stomping your own argument and you didn't even notice it :thumbsup:


Your reasoning for the 2022 invasion was to control Crimea.
Russia already controlled Crimea. Since 2014.

Since the invasion Sevastopol is an open air swimming pool, no longer a naval base^^
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Mar 28 2024 12:01pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 06:50pm)
Your reasoning for the 2022 invasion was to control Crimea.
Russia already controlled Crimea. Since 2014.

Since the invasion Sevastopol is an open air swimming pool, no longer a naval base^^


Dishonest as usual

We were discussing if NATO expansion can be considered a threat (in particular if Ukraine becomes a NATO member)


Let's not discuss damage because Ukraine got wrecked you don't want that discussion buddy
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Mar 28 2024 12:57pm
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 06:01pm)
Dishonest as usual

We were discussing if NATO expansion can be considered a threat (in particular if Ukraine becomes a NATO member)


Let's not discuss damage because Ukraine got wrecked you don't want that discussion buddy


We are discussing the justifications for the invasion. Your entire argument has been based on blaming NATO expansion for the invasion in 2022.
You mentioned Sevastopol, which Russia already controlled before 2022.

Explain how NATO expansion including Ukraine is a threat to Crimea, that is already part of Russia?
Or do you accept that there was no threat to Russia from NATO expansion?

Discuss whatever damage you want, certainly not your buddy though :thumbsup:

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 28 2024 12:57pm
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Mar 28 2024 01:25pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 07:57pm)
We are discussing the justifications for the invasion. Your entire argument has been based on blaming NATO expansion for the invasion in 2022.
You mentioned Sevastopol, which Russia already controlled before 2022.

Explain how NATO expansion including Ukraine is a threat to Crimea, that is already part of Russia?
Or do you accept that there was no threat to Russia from NATO expansion?

Discuss whatever damage you want, certainly not your buddy though :thumbsup:


Again because you're slow ^^

NATO officially welcomed Ukraine's future NATO membership in 2008 and after that shit started to hit the fan

Which part do you not understand?

This post was edited by Djunior on Mar 28 2024 01:26pm
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Mar 28 2024 02:10pm
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 08:25pm)
Again because you're slow ^^

NATO officially welcomed Ukraine's future NATO membership in 2008 and after that shit started to hit the fan

Which part do you not understand?


This false narrative debunked in all positions



Why were the nations that were part of the Soviet Union eager to join NATO?

The nations that were part of the Soviet Union were eager to join NATO for several reasons. Firstly, they saw NATO as a means of protection against potential aggression from Russia. Throughout history, Russia had invaded or incited war in several of its neighboring countries, such as Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine. By joining NATO, these nations believed they would have the collective security and support of the alliance to deter any potential aggression from Russia.Secondly, joining NATO provided these nations with an opportunity to align themselves with Western democracies and gain access to the economic and political benefits that come with membership. NATO membership often signifies a commitment to democratic values, human rights, and the rule of law, which were seen as desirable goals for these nations as they transitioned away from Soviet influence.Lastly, joining NATO allowed these nations to strengthen their ties with the international community and enhance their security cooperation with other member states. By becoming part of a larger alliance, they could benefit from shared intelligence, military training, and joint exercises, which would help modernize their armed forces and improve their defense capabilities.Overall, the eagerness of these nations to join NATO stemmed from their desire for protection, alignment with Western values, and the opportunity to enhance their security and cooperation with other nations.


Did NATO promise not to expand to the east?

Based on the content provided, there is no evidence to suggest that NATO made a promise not to expand to the east. The idea that NATO made such a promise is often referred to as a "Russian fairy tale" and lacks factual basis. The content explains that NATO membership is a voluntary decision made by countries themselves, and they must meet certain criteria to join. The eagerness of nations that were part of the Soviet Union to join NATO was driven by their desire for protection against potential aggression from Russia and the opportunity to align themselves with Western values. Therefore, it can be concluded that there is no verifiable promise made by NATO regarding expansion to the east.

Why did Russia attack Ukraine?

Russia attacked Ukraine for several reasons. Firstly, Russia denies Ukraine's right to exist as an independent nation and seeks to conquer Ukrainian territory. This aggression is driven by Russia's desire to exert control and influence over its neighboring countries.Secondly, Russia's attack on Ukraine was not a response to Ukraine's desire to join NATO. When Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine was a neutral country and expressed no intention of joining NATO. It was only after months of war and Russia's threat to Ukraine's existence that Ukraine abandoned neutrality and sought collective security.Furthermore, the claim that NATO promised not to expand to the east is not supported by factual evidence. NATO membership is a voluntary decision made by countries themselves, and they must meet certain criteria to join. The eagerness of nations that were part of the Soviet Union to join NATO was driven by their desire for protection against potential Russian aggression and the opportunity to align themselves with Western values.In summary, Russia attacked Ukraine because it denies Ukraine's right to exist and seeks to conquer its land. The idea that Russia attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO is not supported by the facts. The aggression from Russia towards its neighbors is the reason why countries in the vicinity seek NATO membership for protection. It is important to not believe Russian lies and to continue supporting Ukraine.


Desintegrated.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on Mar 28 2024 02:11pm
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Mar 28 2024 02:30pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 28 2024 09:10pm)
This false narrative debunked in all positions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lR1JVFjWU8

Why were the nations that were part of the Soviet Union eager to join NATO?

The nations that were part of the Soviet Union were eager to join NATO for several reasons. Firstly, they saw NATO as a means of protection against potential aggression from Russia. Throughout history, Russia had invaded or incited war in several of its neighboring countries, such as Moldova, Georgia, and Ukraine. By joining NATO, these nations believed they would have the collective security and support of the alliance to deter any potential aggression from Russia.Secondly, joining NATO provided these nations with an opportunity to align themselves with Western democracies and gain access to the economic and political benefits that come with membership. NATO membership often signifies a commitment to democratic values, human rights, and the rule of law, which were seen as desirable goals for these nations as they transitioned away from Soviet influence.Lastly, joining NATO allowed these nations to strengthen their ties with the international community and enhance their security cooperation with other member states. By becoming part of a larger alliance, they could benefit from shared intelligence, military training, and joint exercises, which would help modernize their armed forces and improve their defense capabilities.Overall, the eagerness of these nations to join NATO stemmed from their desire for protection, alignment with Western values, and the opportunity to enhance their security and cooperation with other nations.


Did NATO promise not to expand to the east?

Based on the content provided, there is no evidence to suggest that NATO made a promise not to expand to the east. The idea that NATO made such a promise is often referred to as a "Russian fairy tale" and lacks factual basis. The content explains that NATO membership is a voluntary decision made by countries themselves, and they must meet certain criteria to join. The eagerness of nations that were part of the Soviet Union to join NATO was driven by their desire for protection against potential aggression from Russia and the opportunity to align themselves with Western values. Therefore, it can be concluded that there is no verifiable promise made by NATO regarding expansion to the east.

Why did Russia attack Ukraine?

Russia attacked Ukraine for several reasons. Firstly, Russia denies Ukraine's right to exist as an independent nation and seeks to conquer Ukrainian territory. This aggression is driven by Russia's desire to exert control and influence over its neighboring countries.Secondly, Russia's attack on Ukraine was not a response to Ukraine's desire to join NATO. When Russia first invaded Ukraine in 2014, Ukraine was a neutral country and expressed no intention of joining NATO. It was only after months of war and Russia's threat to Ukraine's existence that Ukraine abandoned neutrality and sought collective security.Furthermore, the claim that NATO promised not to expand to the east is not supported by factual evidence. NATO membership is a voluntary decision made by countries themselves, and they must meet certain criteria to join. The eagerness of nations that were part of the Soviet Union to join NATO was driven by their desire for protection against potential Russian aggression and the opportunity to align themselves with Western values.In summary, Russia attacked Ukraine because it denies Ukraine's right to exist and seeks to conquer its land. The idea that Russia attacked because Ukraine wanted to join NATO is not supported by the facts. The aggression from Russia towards its neighbors is the reason why countries in the vicinity seek NATO membership for protection. It is important to not believe Russian lies and to continue supporting Ukraine.


Desintegrated.


We're not talking about the other nations that joined NATO, we're talking about Ukraine ;)

And stop posting lies, NATO officially welcomed Ukraine's membership bid in 2008 --> This means Ukraine wanted to join NATO

You CANNOT possibly frame this another way. These are FACTS

WTF do you not understand lol
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Mar 28 2024 02:50pm
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 07:25pm)
Again because you're slow ^^

NATO officially welcomed Ukraine's future NATO membership in 2008 and after that shit started to hit the fan

Which part do you not understand?


Oh I understand perfectly well.

You are claiming the 2022 invasion was in part about Sevastopol naval base, and NATO expansion threatening Russian control of the base.
Russia already controlled Crimea and Sevastopol from 2014.

Do you see how that is dumb?

Furthermore Ukraine was no closer to joining NATO in 2022 than it was at any time. Look how long it took Sweden to get after applying. 2 years.
And Sweden has zero ongoing conflicts. After Merkel blocked in 2008, Ukraine was never getting into NATO.

Now there is every chance they will.

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Mar 28 2024 03:01pm
Are you guys arguing with ChatGPT bots now? Is this the bottom or are we still digging.
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