Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 05:27pm)

Hobbit is only here to troll this topic, see my previous reply to him (and his reply to that, lol)

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 05:20pm)

Quote (Gala @ Mar 28 2024 12:54pm)

^ferdia

It seems to me that you are only posting answers from chatgpt that serve your narrative. I’ve been running your “facts” on Ukraine through the AI (which I would personally not use for fact-checking)

I’ll give you some examples, since you seem to love it.
Claim: the US "aid" to Ukraine is "loans" that Ukraine is going to spend A LONG TIME repaying.

Answer:
The nature of U.S. assistance to Ukraine, including whether it takes the form of loans or grants, can vary depending on specific agreements and programs. While some assistance may indeed involve loans that Ukraine would need to repay over time, other forms of assistance may be provided as grants or aid without the expectation of repayment.
The United States has provided significant assistance to Ukraine since the events of 2014, including financial support, military aid, and technical assistance. This assistance is often aimed at supporting Ukraine's economic development, governance reforms, defense capabilities, and efforts to counter corruption.
When providing loans or financial assistance to Ukraine, the terms and conditions of such assistance would typically be negotiated between the two countries. These terms may include repayment schedules, interest rates, and other provisions.
It's worth noting that international assistance to Ukraine, including from the United States and other donors, is often aimed at supporting Ukraine's stability, sovereignty, and economic development, particularly in the face of challenges such as the conflict in eastern Ukraine and ongoing tensions with Russia.
The impact of such assistance on Ukraine's long-term financial situation would depend on various factors, including the terms of the assistance, Ukraine's ability to manage its debt, and its broader economic and political trajectory.
Claim: the US supported the coup in 2014 in Ukraine and installed their people into the Ukrainian government

Answer
The situation surrounding the events of 2014 in Ukraine, commonly referred to as the "Euromaidan revolution" or "Ukrainian revolution," is complex and has been subject to various interpretations and narratives. While the United States did express support for the aspirations of the Ukrainian people during the protests, there is no concrete evidence to suggest that the U.S. supported or orchestrated a coup in Ukraine in 2014.
The Euromaidan protests began in late 2013 in response to then-President Viktor Yanukovych's decision to suspend an association agreement with the European Union in favor of closer ties with Russia. The protests escalated into a broader movement against government corruption, authoritarianism, and economic mismanagement.
Yanukovych's government faced widespread criticism and allegations of human rights abuses during the protests, culminating in his ousting in February 2014. Following Yanukovych's departure, an interim government was established, leading to early presidential elections in May 2014, which were won by Petro Poroshenko.
While the United States and other Western countries expressed support for the transition to a new government and for Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity, there is no evidence to suggest that the U.S. directly installed individuals into the Ukrainian government. The events of 2014 were driven largely by internal dynamics within Ukraine, including popular discontent with the Yanukovych regime and aspirations for closer ties with Europe.
It's essential to critically evaluate sources of information and consider multiple perspectives when discussing complex geopolitical events like the events in Ukraine in 2014.

Claim:
the US took steps to facilitate Ukraine in Nato, even when they knew this was a Russian red line, and armed Ukraine for this war which was clearly going to happen.

Answer
The situation regarding Ukraine's potential membership in NATO and the provision of military assistance is indeed complex and has been subject to geopolitical tensions between Russia and the West.
Regarding NATO membership for Ukraine, it's important to note that NATO operates on the principle of collective defense, where an attack against one member is considered an attack against all members. As such, NATO expansion is a significant geopolitical issue, particularly in regions where there are existing tensions with neighboring countries.
The issue of Ukraine's NATO membership has been a contentious one, with Ukraine expressing interest in joining the alliance. However, NATO has not made any formal commitments to integrate Ukraine as a member, and any potential membership would require consensus among NATO member states.
The provision of military assistance to Ukraine, including lethal aid, has been a subject of debate and controversy. The United States and other Western countries have provided various forms of military assistance to Ukraine to support its defense capabilities, particularly in the face of ongoing conflict in eastern Ukraine and tensions with Russia.
While the provision of military assistance to Ukraine has been aimed at bolstering its ability to defend itself, it has also been a source of tension between the United States and Russia. Russia has strongly opposed Western military assistance to Ukraine, viewing it as provocative and a threat to its own security interests.
Overall, the situation in Ukraine is complex and involves multiple geopolitical dynamics, including tensions between Russia and the West, Ukraine's aspirations for closer ties with Western institutions like NATO, and efforts to support Ukraine's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Claim:
the US vetoed any investigation into the NS explosions

Answer:
There is no evidence to suggest that the United States vetoed any investigation into the explosions at the NS Archipelago in Ukraine. The NS Archipelago refers to a series of explosions that occurred at a military ammunition depot in Balakliia, Ukraine, in March 2017.
The explosions caused significant damage and forced the evacuation of thousands of nearby residents. Ukrainian authorities launched an investigation into the cause of the explosions, which were believed to be the result of sabotage or negligence.
The United States, along with other international actors, expressed concern about the incident and offered assistance to Ukraine in its response and recovery efforts. However, there is no indication that the United States vetoed or obstructed any independent investigation into the explosions.
It's essential to rely on credible sources and verifiable information when discussing sensitive events like the NS Archipelago explosions. If there were specific claims or reports about U.S. involvement in obstructing investigations into the incident, they would need to be evaluated based on the available evidence.

Claim:
the US is not talking to Russia relating to the war and refuses all negotiation, and further that the US and its allies, England, scuppered the peace deal of 2023

Answer:
As of my last update in January 2022, I can't provide real-time information on current events. However, it's important to clarify a few points:
1. Diplomatic relations between the United States and Russia have been strained due to various geopolitical issues, including Russia's actions in Ukraine, alleged interference in other countries' elections, and disagreements over Syria, among others. While there have been periods of dialogue and engagement between the two countries on certain issues, tensions have often overshadowed efforts at cooperation.
2. Negotiations to resolve the conflict in Ukraine have involved multiple parties, including Russia, Ukraine, and representatives from the Donetsk and Luhansk regions. The United States and its allies, including the United Kingdom, have been supportive of diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful resolution to the conflict. However, there have been disagreements over the terms of potential peace agreements and the role of different stakeholders.
3. It's essential to critically evaluate claims about international relations and diplomatic efforts, as narratives can vary depending on sources and perspectives. Accusations of scuppering peace deals or refusing negotiations may reflect one side's interpretation of events and may not necessarily capture the full complexity of diplomatic efforts to resolve conflicts.
For the most up-to-date information on diplomatic relations between the United States, Russia, and efforts to resolve the conflict in Ukraine, I recommend consulting reliable news sources and official statements from relevant governments and international organizations.

I also ran the last answer through gemini to get more up to date results:

That's an interesting viewpoint, but it doesn't quite align with what's publicly known about the situation. Here's a more balanced perspective:

US-Russia Communication: There have been limited channels of communication between the US and Russia regarding the war. While not at an ambassadorial level, there have been discussions about nuclear security and potential prisoner exchanges.

Negotiation Attempts: Several attempts at negotiation have been reported, including those facilitated by Turkey and France. However, significant disagreements remain between Ukraine and Russia, making a ceasefire or peace deal difficult.

2023 Peace Deal: There haven't been any public reports of a formal peace deal being proposed or scuppered in 2023. It's possible there were behind-the-scenes discussions, but their details and who might have hindered them are unknown.

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 29 Mar 2024 00:46)

Lmao NS archipelago, I wish you knew enough about this conflict to be embarrassed by this.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 05:31pm)

Now we are getting somewhere. After everything I didn't expect you to admit there is no threat to Russians from NATO, before Ferdia :D

The interests of whom? 140 million apathetic Russians? Or a few hundred oligarchs?

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Mar 28 2024 04:53pm)

I am actually interested to see if ^Goomshill is going to respond to what ^Gala wrote. Goom is American, and have a very decent grasp from my experience looking at his writings and comments on this topic.
Maybe he can give some insight.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 04:55pm)

I think i carried the baton long enough today. I'm tagging ^Goomshill in, thanks in advance!
*runs away fast*

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 28 2024 04:57pm)

Carried the baton of not fleshing out your position. Exhausting.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 04:59pm)

You are either very stupid or a troll. im not sure.

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 28 2024 04:55pm)

Dude LOL we've discussed this countless times --> Crimea, Sebastopol (naval base), large group of ethnic Russians

And you suggest that a military alliance insisting that Ukraine becomes a NATO member cannot be perceived as a threat?

Add to that a history of difficult mutual relations (cold war, huge distrust)

What kind of reality do you live in???

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 05:19pm)

it seems to me that:

1. you have ignored all the evidence posted over the last 2 years related to America's involvement in the coup in 2014 (and critically the appointment of government officials post the coup).

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 05:19pm)

2. you are ignoring US official documents and comments related to the loans provided to Ukraine, in congress, from the oval office, in distinguished publications, all posted in this topic over the last 2 years.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 05:19pm)

3. you are ignoring the declassified documents, again, posted in this thread, related to russia's red lines and US political and military establishments understandings of them.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 05:19pm)

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 28 2024 05:19pm)

5. your version of Chatgpt is not up to date. It was widely reported recently (and supporting documents posted in this thread) that the US continues to ensure there will be no negotiation with Russia.