d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > The Associated Press Is A Spunk Rag
Prev191011121320Next
Closed New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 51,285
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,400.67
Jan 24 2022 02:22pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ 24 Jan 2022 21:15)
agree with this..
And I think there is no way US can sustain the looking over minority problems anymore..
The correction is causing mass conservative outrage, while leaving the status quo is causing mass liberal outrage.


Conservative outrage is mostly focused on the particular correction proposed by liberals: "affirmative action" or "counter-discrimination".

As one of the thought leaders of the modern American left puts it:
Quote (Ibram X. Kendi)
“The only remedy to racist discrimination is antiracist discrimination. The only remedy to past discrimination is present discrimination. The only remedy to present discrimination is future discrimination.”

This toxic shit is what's triggering conservatives and causes all the pushback against AA, CRT, including race in triage criteria and so on and forth.
Member
Posts: 45,880
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,189.49
Jan 24 2022 02:30pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 24 2022 02:18pm)
Do you feel there's health outcome disparities that exist among people based off of race?


Based off their race? Not for covid, maybe for some diseases explained by evolutionary divergence like sickle cell anemia.
I think there are underlying factors that are stratified by race and lead to different outcomes, then those factors should be isolated and used.
Member
Posts: 21,945
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 6.66
Jan 24 2022 02:32pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 24 2022 12:30pm)
Based off their race? Not for covid, maybe for some diseases explained by evolutionary divergence like sickle cell anemia.
I think there are underlying factors that are stratified by race and lead to different outcomes, then those factors should be isolated and used.


So the CDC's data that accounts for health disparities along racial demographics is problematic?
Member
Posts: 8,415
Joined: Dec 27 2019
Gold: 69.69
Warn: 30%
Jan 24 2022 02:58pm
Goom well done for slamming the low resolution arguments of the self appointed victim larpers (debaters).
+ respect unlocked
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 285.00
Jan 24 2022 03:06pm
Quote (addone @ Jan 24 2022 03:58pm)
Goom well done for slamming the low resolution arguments of the self appointed victim larpers (debaters).
+ respect unlocked


Who will stick up for poor oppressed whites?
Member
Posts: 45,880
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,189.49
Jan 24 2022 03:10pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 24 2022 02:32pm)
So the CDC's data that accounts for health disparities along racial demographics is problematic?


I don't think anyone disputes disparities exist, its a matter of causal relationship and discriminating on that basis. Its like saying the NCVS and UCR account for disparities along racial demographics in criminal offender rates, I don't think that's disputed. But having brown skin doesn't make you a criminal nor does it make you susceptible to covid. What mechanism of action would there be for "every race other than white" to be given inferior immune response to covid-19? Its such a nonsensical racial grouping from a genetic, evolutionary point of view or shared medical traits, on both sides of that divide. And to create a standard that discriminates against people not based on the traits that define their circumstances but rather on the color of their skin, well that's just racism.
Member
Posts: 21,945
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 6.66
Jan 24 2022 03:20pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 24 2022 01:10pm)
I don't think anyone disputes disparities exist, its a matter of causal relationship and discriminating on that basis. Its like saying the NCVS and UCR account for disparities along racial demographics in criminal offender rates, I don't think that's disputed. But having brown skin doesn't make you a criminal nor does it make you susceptible to covid. What mechanism of action would there be for "every race other than white" to be given inferior immune response to covid-19? Its such a nonsensical racial grouping from a genetic, evolutionary point of view or shared medical traits, on both sides of that divide. And to create a standard that discriminates against people not based on the traits that define their circumstances but rather on the color of their skin, well that's just racism.


But race is only one consideration among many and doesn't qualify people for priority treatment on its own. I believe Thor brought up earlier that 'race' is essentially a succinct way to, on average, give priority to people who otherwise are disproportionately subject to inferior health outcomes--the same way that 'zip codes' are a succinct shortcut. Does being black mean that you're more likely to die from Covid in a causal way? Not as far as I'm aware--just as is also the case for living in a specific zip code region.
Member
Posts: 8,415
Joined: Dec 27 2019
Gold: 69.69
Warn: 30%
Jan 24 2022 03:37pm
Quote (Skinned @ Jan 25 2022 10:06am)
Who will stick up for poor oppressed whites?


Black people who are champions of race disadvantages. If I require free treatment of blue balls a black lawyer will jump into a time machine and make a case how my ansestors need recompensed for King Tiglath-Pileser III treatment of my race 733 BCE.
An apologetic black sjw will oblige me for those acts because she will recognise I bear deep scars that can never be healed even though modern society has given everyone equal opportunities.
Member
Posts: 45,880
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,189.49
Jan 24 2022 03:40pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Jan 24 2022 03:20pm)
But race is only one consideration among many and doesn't qualify people for priority treatment on its own. I believe Thor brought up earlier that 'race' is essentially a succinct way to, on average, give priority to people who otherwise are disproportionately subject to inferior health outcomes--the same way that 'zip codes' are a succinct shortcut. Does being black mean that you're more likely to die from Covid in a causal way? Not as far as I'm aware--just as is also the case for living in a specific zip code region.


Discrimination being mixed in with other factors is still discrimination. Redlining by banks wouldn't be legal if the bankers were putting a penalty on the credit score of black people, even if its not the only factor in a credit score. And likewise, using zip codes is just the jim crow version of that, trying to obfuscate discrimination by applying an ostensibly neutral criterion of purely arbitrary distinction with no causal relationship. There's a century of precedent in tearing down those kinds of 'what if we just...' rules as being racist.

Where's the medical necessity in all this? What makes Wentworth Miller more likely to die of covid than Iron Eyes Cody? Does Emilia Clarke really need preferential treatment for being 1/8th Indian? If you were a doctor looking for outcomes overall, would you really want to be dabbling in the third rail of invoking explicitly racist healthcare coverage for little or no practical reason on a case by case basis? There's a reason Minnesota and Utah and the multi-state agency all dropped these methods when it came to the public's attention, its not worth it.
Member
Posts: 21,945
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 6.66
Jan 24 2022 03:52pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Jan 24 2022 01:40pm)
Discrimination being mixed in with other factors is still discrimination. Redlining by banks wouldn't be legal if the bankers were putting a penalty on the credit score of black people, even if its not the only factor in a credit score. And likewise, using zip codes is just the jim crow version of that, trying to obfuscate discrimination by applying an ostensibly neutral criterion of purely arbitrary distinction with no causal relationship. There's a century of precedent in tearing down those kinds of 'what if we just...' rules as being racist.

Where's the medical necessity in all this? What makes Wentworth Miller more likely to die of covid than Iron Eyes Cody? Does Emilia Clarke really need preferential treatment for being 1/8th Indian? If you were a doctor looking for outcomes overall, would you really want to be dabbling in the third rail of invoking explicitly racist healthcare coverage for little or no practical reason on a case by case basis? There's a reason Minnesota and Utah and the multi-state agency all dropped these methods when it came to the public's attention, its not worth it.


While I don't think that the system being utilized (formally or currently) at Utah, Minnesota, and New York sufficiently or effectively addresses disparate health outcomes, I do think the underlying principle of incorporating sociological data into triage calculations is sound and beneficial. I also don't think we'll ever get to a place where the data is so granular that we've established Factor X or Factor Y as being "causal" for these disparities, and as such, some form of succinct shortcut will inevitably be applied.

Personally, I think zip codes would be a better succinct tool as it speaks better to resource availability and would more than likely 'capture' many of the same demographics that the original tool was attempting to capture anyway.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev191011121320Next
Closed New Topic New Poll