So Iraq has given the soldiers 4 weeks to get out. Trump says he'll lift sanctions and claims a permanent ceasefire.
Hours before James Jeffrey said that US forces have been witnessing what they call war crimes committed by Turkey against the Kurds.
He also mentioned over 100 islamic state fighters have escaped and they don't know where they are.

This post was edited by Arsenic_Touch on Oct 23 2019 01:45pm

i wasn't trying to be 'smug', you said yourself that you aren't aware of different phases in the pkk's approach to different turkish governments, different leadership (after öcalan's arrest), and during different historical events in the area - and that is completely understandable and perfectly fine, that was in no way supposed to be a 'gotcha', it's a complicated situation. i'm not an expert on everything either, but i also don't get offended if someone who knows more suggest to read up on something before i make sweeping and one-sided statements about it.

like i already acknowledged, the pkk are no angels (even less so in the past), and their open letter indeed primarily focuses on the relatable and justifiable part of their existence - but that does NOT make it 'terrorist propaganda' especially considering that it is a REACTION to the rationalisation about the abandonment of the kurdish people being justified because of their terrorism. it puts THAT simplistic propaganda take into context.

Alright, now I get your point. And it's not even a bad one tbh. Perhaps it would have been better to post this clarification directly with the PKK statement, so that it becomes clear why you posted this open letter despite its obvious bias, and that you dont uncritically support every claim from this letter but still found its broader message worth sharing.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Oct 23 2019 01:55pm

yes, i certainly should have done that, you're right.

And I should have asked you for such a clarification, or your intention of posting the open letter, before harshly dismissing it as terrorist propaganda.
I sometimes have this tendency to jump to conclusions a little too quickly, which admittedly isnt beneficial for productive discussions.

ridiculous. now that turkey and syria have divided kurdish territory amongst themselves, trump lifts all sanctions against turkey, and claims 'victory'.

that's leaving your younger child alone in the forest and then proudly announcing that there is no bullying amongst siblings in your family anymore.

This is good. It's Turkey and Russia's problem now. And the Kurds joined Syria. The US doesn't need to be a part of Syria's problems.

I'm not a nationalist or anti-globalist but the Middle East is about the last place I want the US to be. It's a bottomless shit hole.

9/11 justice was served as well as it could be. It's time to move on.

This post was edited by NatureNames on Oct 23 2019 02:39pm

you know that the troops abandoning the kurds weren't withdrawn from the middle east though, right? they didn't go home, they were relocated to iraq.

also, the draft dodging moron again said the quiet part out loud, about 2 minutes into his statement: "we've secured the oil, and therefore a small number of US troops will remain in the area - where they have the oil. and we're going to be protecting it, and we'll be deciding what we're going to do with it in the future[...]"

so protecting oil, that under no reasonable rationale belongs to america, is ok - but protecting the allies that helped you defeat a terrorist organisation which was formed as a direct consequence of another american policy blunder (also for oil that belongs to another country), is somehow not america's problem or responsibility... riiight...

Trump withdraws from Syria, removes all sanctions on Turkey, calls it a victory....

...we need to be checking this guy's tax returns pronto to see how exactly it is he is compromised.

US troops follow orders. They do not abandon anything. I'm aware of what the Pentagon said about them going to Iraq. In my opinion it's still an improvement since it reduces the geopolitical footprint the US has in the Middle East. I didn't say this was an end-all solution or conclusion. I just said "This is good." as in it's a step in the right direction. A step closer to ending operations in the ME.

It's unfortunate the Kurds are hung out to dry but they are not our responsibility. The Kurds are an stateless ethnic group spanning over 25 nations. The US does not have formal diplomatic relations with the Kurds. The US and some Kurdish groups have had a mutual enemy at times and cooperated. That enemy is not Turkey, which is actually a US ally and member of NATO. If some Kurds and Turkey want to duke it out that's on them. The US doesn't need to be a part of that fight.

Trumps comments about oil are not within the scope of my comment and I won't entertain your straw man.