Question for the knowing elite: Lets us say I have a lvl 55 - 150EE ice and a lvl 55 - 120EE / 30 int / 5% ice Heal. QUESTION #1 = if I place the 150ee ice in acc slot I lose 1/4 ee (37.5) so now my ice is 112.5EE is this correct? QUESTION #2 = if I then place the 120/30/5 Heal in the main charm slot how much does the int add to EE and how much does the 5% ice add to ee? (hmm I guess that's 2x questions) QUESTION #3 = Without knowing the answers to question #1 or #2 atm I am only assuming it is possible to have a low enough attack EE charm in acc slot and high int charm in the main slot to were I can potentially gain more dmg in this set up. Am I assuming correctly?

recap: 4 questions can someone answer all 4? thx

ALSO in this set up I have right here: 150ee ice in acc and the heal 30int / 5% ice am I doing less dmg than just placing the 150ee ice in the attack charm slot? Is it close? My goal is to cut down my mana usage with bigger heals and keep my dmg to the original EE on the ice charm or dam close to it.

This post was edited by redawg53 on Nov 15 2018 02:10am

#1: Its not only the ee, you lose 25% of dmg, that also counts for the dmg an ice without ee does.
#2: As far as i know, for charms 1 int means +1 ee. 5% ice mastery is 5ee.
#3: Y, with a high int-charm in main it is possible to increase your dmg with an att-charm in acc-slot.

Q#1: I thought the EE loss was ~33%? Not 100% sure on this
Q#2: int "adds" EE practically based on your lvl/amt of total int. --- 5% ice mastery adds ~5%ee
Q#3: I'm sure it IS possible. But you're probably better off with a good enough attack charm, that a setup like this wouldn't be beneficial.

Too bad you can't tag individual users in a post so that they get it.
I guess I could try this....



He is pretty damn knowledable about this stuff.

Matthias has always been pretty good at explaining things like this to me. He's also an OG slasher from back in the day.

Another one who would possibly be better able to help you.
Would be this guy:



Pretty much the king of solo right here.
I'd bet 100kfg that this cat has encountered this situation and seeked answers himself. He's extremely knowledgeable about stats

Back in the day, there used to be a calculator for situations like this.
Although I've been told the link is unfortunately broken.

I hope this helps bud!

Awesome thanks for the help!!

Acc slot makes you lose 25% damage and you pay 25% less mana
To offset that you need to gain at least 33% damage through the int from the main charm

1*0,75=0,75
0,75*(1+1/3)=1

1% mastery = 1%ee
1in=1ee as long as total int is 5 higher than your ee

I am at work and can't type wall of text to explain deeper right now

Alex (ahs_darkhunter) can probably provide you a detailed equation

I can just tell you that 60int at 55 from charm is not enough to fully offset the damage losa from acc casting

This post was edited by Meridius on Nov 15 2018 02:16am

Glad kot was here to correctly explain #1. Many slashers have trouble understanding this but what kot says for #1 is 100% accurate. To use the numbers from your post, damage for the 150 ee ice is 2.50 x base. You lose 25% of this resulting in 1.875x base damage dealt (which means now the damage is like an 87.5 ee ice... but you will also spend 25% less mana to cast with it). Prior to the update, elemental masteries were giving only a small fraction of the ee they were supposed to... now they are working 100%, so 5 ice mastery will add 5 ee to the attack charm. However, if the ice charm is still in the accessory slot, then you’ll only add 3.75% ee effectively (150 ee becomes 155 ee = 2.55 x base -25% or 1.9125 x base = 91.25 ee ice). Int and ee cannot be converted between each other directly, because the effectiveness of either is dependent on the other. When you have say... 150 int and a 150 ee charm, 1 int is roughly as effective as 1 ee (or elemental mastery as they are now equal), but when you have say... 300 int and a 100 ee charm, 1 ee on the charm is doing a lot more than 1 int... and ofc for the reverse, anyone who’s off-casted samurai with some nice attack charms can tell you that int starts to get really valuable compared to ee on charm... especially if you’re trading Int for mana on gear.

Just switched from phone to comp and did a couple of tests so that you can see how this works above...

So here are some damage ranges using my lvl 31 magician with lightning charms of different levels
(and calculated attack charm ee equivalency for higher level charm onto lower level) on a char
with 8 light prof and used 3 sets of gear. Feel free to recreate any of these sorts of tests since
to my knowledge we don't have a calculator available as of yet. I think this illustrates my point
about the usefulness of int vs ee with some tangible data.

Damage Range, Int, Attack Charm EE

41 - 416 90 int lvl 30 150 ee
55 - 551 150 int lvl 30 150 ee
51 - 516 90 int lvl 30 210 ee
68 - 684 150 int lvl 30 210 ee
68 - 681 208 int lvl 30 150 ee
84 - 846 208 int lvl 30 210 ee

Going from bold (150 int 150 ee) to red (+60 ee) or to blue (+58 int) produced basically the same result, actually only slightly smaller increase for 58 int probably because it's 58 instead of 60. So 150 int / 150 ee is a point at which 1 ee = 1 int and except for at extremes, when int and ee are similar, you should see int and ee adding similarly to damage

23 - 236 90 int lvl 15 113 ee
29 - 290 90 int lvl 15 161 ee*
31 - 313 150 int lvl 15 113 ee
38 - 384 150 int lvl 15 161 ee*
38 - 387 208 int lvl 15 113 ee
47 - 475 208 int lvl 15 161 ee*

Going from bold (150 int 113 ee) to red (+48 ee) produced basically the same result as blue (+58 int). As int and ee get further apart, expect additions to the lower of the two to be more effective.

*These values are not affected by the lvl 15 ee cap of 140 ee because a level 20 attack charm was used
with equal damage to a 161 ee lvl 15 charm.



So in your set up, you don't say what your int is (and also ice prof, but shouldn't make that huge a diff)... and without knowing how high your int is, it's not possible to tell exactly how much of a difference that 30 int will make... but assuming that your int is reasonable... the short answer is yes, you're doing less damage than just placing the 150 ee ice in the attack charm slot... and no, its not even close You will definitely save mana though! Assuming other members of your group can pick up your damage slack... at the very least you can guarantee saving mana per attack

This post was edited by BWConformity on Nov 15 2018 03:16am

Sorry, you do not have permission to edit that message

RIP... guess I took too long to post my edit lol... Anyway,

Now... just for fun... let's take a look at one breakpoint (break-even point) for int needed on main charm slot with a 150 ee attack charm from the data I just posted!

41 - 416 90 int lvl 30 150 ee
55 - 551 150 int lvl 30 150 ee
51 - 516 90 int lvl 30 210 ee
68 - 684 150 int lvl 30 210 ee
68 - 681 208 int lvl 30 150 ee
84 - 846 208 int lvl 30 210 ee

So if you look at the 90 int, 150 ee point, the charm damage in main slot is 41 - 416...
In accessory slot, that damage is then 25% less, or 30 - 312

So how much int is needed to boost this number to 41 - 416 in accessory slot?
If you put on a +60 int charm in main slot... the new damage will be...

55 - 551 (but reduced by 25%) = 41 - 413

Damn... that was almost too perfect lol... so if you have 90 int, and you put on a 60 int charm in the main slot, you will ALMOST make it back to the damage you would have done with 90 int and the 150 ee charm in main slot. I'd guess then that the break even point for that example would be like a 61 int charm or something like that

I'll bet you have more than 90 int right now though... so you're gonna need 1 helluva int charm

That part is wrong

your int-5 is the baseline to increase charm damage
Alex calculated this and he came up with the rule:
As long as your int minus 5 is higher than your ee plus profs, 1 int is equal to 1ee
(mastery=prof)

I think we'd better have Alex explain this because I feel like you're saying something that he wouldn't... if he comes in to verify that statement, though, I'll try to understand it...

What I'd assume he meant is that since base charm damage already uses 5 int, you need to subtract 5 int before you calculate the enhanced effect generated through int... so in this case an equivalency would be 155 int and 150 ee on charm instead of my simplification of if they're approximately equal...

However, I'm sure he didn't mean to say that 1 int = 1 ee whenever your int - 5 is higher than your EE + profs because we can easily imagine a situation in which you have 500 int and your lvl charm has 50 ee and you have no profs... in this case, 500 int - 5 int = 495 int... which is higher than 50 ee + profs... but in this situation it's obvious that adding 1 int is doing waaaay less than adding 1 ee

This post was edited by BWConformity on Nov 15 2018 04:22am

No it scales up
The formula for the charm damage is rather simple