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Nov 15 2018 04:28am
Should be like

base damage * (1 + (int - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (ee + prof + mastery) / 100)
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Nov 15 2018 04:34am
int -5 makes one factor.. like said it is like 155 int would mean a factor of 2.5
150ee would also mean a factor of 2.5 (both will be multiplied by the base dmg of a charm to give the final dmg that is shown)

if you want to know wheather you want more int or ee to improve you just have to know that whatever of both is lower will give you a bigger reward if upgraded.

easy example:

you got 0ee charm and 205int
Question is if you want 50ee more or 50int more

0ee --> 50ee means a factor of 1.0 --> 1.5 (50% more dmg than before)
205int --> 255int means a factor of 3.0 --> 3.5 (16.7% more dmg than before)
--> ee upgrade would be way more effective!

if you turn it around and have a 200ee charm but just 5 int and question yourself if you want 50ee more or 50int more

200ee --> 250ee means a factor of 3.0 --> 3.5 (16.7% more dmg than before)
5int --> 55int means a factor of 1.0 --> 1.5 (50% more dmg than before)
--> int upgrade would be way more effective!


many people say that 1ee ~ 1int but that would only be right if ee and int got the same (or at least a similar value)

60ee --> 65int
100ee --> 105int
150ee --> 155int
200ee --> 205int
250ee --> 255int
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Nov 15 2018 04:42am
Quote (Meridius @ Nov 15 2018 12:28am)
Should be like

base damage * (1 + (int - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (ee + prof + mastery) / 100)


This looks right, let's use my numbers as an example to see what I said!

Quote (BWConformity @ Nov 15 2018 12:21am)
I think we'd better have Alex explain this because I feel like you're saying something that he wouldn't... if he comes in to verify that statement, though, I'll try to understand it...

What I'd assume he meant is that since base charm damage already uses 5 int, you need to subtract 5 int before you calculate the enhanced effect generated through int... so in this case an equivalency would be 155 int and 150 ee on charm instead of my simplification of if they're approximately equal...

However, I'm sure he didn't mean to say that 1 int = 1 ee whenever your int - 5 is higher than your EE + profs because we can easily imagine a situation in which you have 500 int and your lvl charm has 50 ee and you have no profs... in this case, 500 int - 5 int = 495 int... which is higher than 50 ee + profs... but in this situation it's obvious that adding 1 int is doing waaaay less than adding 1 ee :huh:


base damage * (1 + (500 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (50 / 100) = 8.925 x base damage
Now add 1 int:
base damage * (1 + (501 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (50 / 100) = 8.94 x base damage (increased by 0.17%)
Now try 1 ee instead:
base damage * (1 + (500 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (51 / 100) = 8.9845 x base damage (increased by 0.67%)

So basically what I was saying, and hopefully what Alex would say... if charm ee is low compared to int, then you will get more out of increasing ee than int... definitely not 1:1

If you use the formula with high ee and low int, you'll get the reverse outcome with int being more effective to increase damage than ee


E: whoops, I'm slow. Looks like Alex already resolved the confusion before I posted :lol:

This post was edited by BWConformity on Nov 15 2018 04:44am
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Nov 15 2018 04:51am
END of thread lol thank you so much this needs copied and sticky....
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Nov 15 2018 05:02am
Quote (BWConformity @ 15 Nov 2018 11:42)
This looks right, let's use my numbers as an example to see what I said!



base damage * (1 + (500 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (50 / 100) = 8.925 x base damage
Now add 1 int:
base damage * (1 + (501 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (50 / 100) = 8.94 x base damage (increased by 0.17%)
Now try 1 ee instead:
base damage * (1 + (500 - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (51 / 100) = 8.9845 x base damage (increased by 0.67%)

So basically what I was saying, and hopefully what Alex would say... if charm ee is low compared to int, then you will get more out of increasing ee than int... definitely not 1:1

If you use the formula with high ee and low int, you'll get the reverse outcome with int being more effective to increase damage than ee


E: whoops, I'm slow. Looks like Alex already resolved the confusion before I posted :lol:


1int = 1 ee is true lol
Both increase one factor of the equation in the same way. You always have at least 5 int on all classes so the minus 5 is already offset
Ofc the increase of total damage is less the higher each factor is
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Nov 15 2018 01:05pm
Quote (Meridius @ Nov 15 2018 12:10am)
That part is wrong

your int-5 is the baseline to increase charm damage
Alex calculated this and he came up with the rule:
As long as your int minus 5 is [equal to] your ee plus profs, 1 int is equal to 1ee
(mastery=prof)


I think I figured out why we were disagreeing. I believe this would be Alex’s rule (made the edit to your quote). Also, thank you for sharing what appears to be a working formula. Assuming it’s correct (which I think it is), we can use it to calculate the int or int + mastery needed on redawg’s heal charm used in main slot to have the accessory slot attack charn do the same damage it would in main.

Redawg, how much int and profs do you have while using the 150 ee charm? :)
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Nov 15 2018 02:41pm
Quote (BWConformity @ 15 Nov 2018 20:05)
I think I figured out why we were disagreeing. I believe this would be Alex’s rule (made the edit to your quote). Also, thank you for sharing what appears to be a working formula. Assuming it’s correct (which I think it is), we can use it to calculate the int or int + mastery needed on redawg’s heal charm used in main slot to have the accessory slot attack charn do the same damage it would in main.

Redawg, how much int and profs do you have while using the 150 ee charm? :)


it should be correct

you should always aim to increase the lowest factor for the most benefit of each single increasement you can get
translated to LS it means, if your total factor for ee is lower, you wanna increase your EE and if your total factor for int is lower you wanna increase your int

And to offset the damage loss from acc casting, the gain of the added int from the in charm need to yield you 33% damage at least

for him at 0 prof and a generic 205 int it means:

(1 + (int - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (ee + prof + mastery) / 100)
lvl 55 - 150EE ice and a lvl 55 - 120EE / 30 int / 5% ice Hea

main
Code
factorEE = 1 + 150 / 100 = 2.5
factorINT = 1 + (205-5)/100 = 3
total = 3 * 2.5 = 7.5

acc

Code
factorEE = 1 + (150+5) / 100 = 2.55
factorINT = 1 + (235-5)/100 = 3.3
total = 3.3 * 2.55 * 0.75 = ~6.3


so he will lose 1.2 in factor for the total damage and do less damage

205 int seems reasonable for me btw, mage with lvl 60 has at least 60 +59 = 129int
getting the missing 76int from gear is not that hard or getting more from fails

This post was edited by Meridius on Nov 15 2018 02:57pm
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Nov 15 2018 02:48pm
Quote (Meridius @ Nov 15 2018 10:41am)
it should be correct

you should always aim to increase the lowest factor for the most benefit of each single increasement you can get
translated to LS it means, if your total factor for ee is lower, you wanna increase your EE and if your total factor for int is lower you wanna increase your int

And to offset the damage loss from acc casting, the gain of the added int from the in charm need to yield you 33% damage at least

for him at 0 prof and a generic 205 int it means:

(1 + (int - 5) / 100) * ( 1 + (ee + prof + mastery) / 100)
lvl 55 - 150EE ice and a lvl 55 - 120EE / 30 int / 5% ice Hea

main
Code
factorEE = 1 + 150 / 100 = 2.5
factorINT = 1 + (205-5)/100 = 2
total = 2 * 2.5 = 5

acc

Code
factorEE = 1 + (150+5) / 100 = 2.55
factorINT = 1 + (235-5)/100 = 2.3
total = 2.3 * 2.55 * 0.75 = ~4.4


so he will lose 0.6 in factor for the total damage and do less damage

205 int seems reasonable for me btw, mage with lvl 60 has at least 60 +59 = 129int
getting the missing 76int from gear is not that hard or getting more from fails


I think you’re having a problem with the math on factorINT... I believe you forgot to add 1 each time... will make a very big difference in the final result imo since you’re calculating 30 extra int on 105 Int instead of 205 Int currently
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Nov 15 2018 02:57pm
Quote (BWConformity @ 15 Nov 2018 21:48)
I think you’re having a problem with the math on factorINT... I believe you forgot to add 1 each time... will make a very big difference in the final result imo since you’re calculating 30 extra int on 105 Int instead of 205 Int currently


fixed it, but i missed it on both and it just makes the difference even bigger

he would need 295int~ to make up for the 25% damage loss instead of 235

Code
7,5 / 2,55 / 0,75= ~3,91 facor int needed
3,91 = 1 + (x-5)/100
x= 295~ int needed


This post was edited by Meridius on Nov 15 2018 03:06pm
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Nov 15 2018 03:13pm
Quote (Meridius @ Nov 15 2018 10:57am)
fixed it, but i missed it on both and it just makes the difference even bigger


Cool, looks good now.

Yes exactly, that’s the big difference I was referring to, since when your Int is low compared to charm ee (e.g., 105 Int and 150 ee charm) actually mainslotting an Int charm is a reasonable choice...

1.2 lost in factor might be a little hard to understand so let’s just say in your example:

Main slot damage is 100% (7.5 x base)
R-slot damage with no Int charm is 75% (5.625 x base)
With the 30 Int 5 mastery charm its 84% (6.31125 x base)

Anyway, I was really hoping for redawg to tell us his Int because I think it would be really cool to actually calculate some hypothetical mainslot charms that would give equal damage for his R-slotted charm compared to when it’s in main slot. The take-home message has always been that unless you have a really high ee charm and low int, it takes a pretty much impossible Int charm... but sure would be fun to see exactly what amount of int it would take :)
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