I think the holdup here is that Clark's stock has risen so much (and he knows it) he's asking for the moon, likely significantly more than any other goalie coach has earned in the past.

You're arguing that Myers and Beagle are really bad, to the point they don't bring anything to the team BECAUSE they are overpaid. This is untrue and makes no sense. Being overpaid does not relate to on ice performance, McDavid didn't get 105pts in 56 games because he's severely underpaid lol. All the scrubs in the bottom 6C played worse than Beagle despite him being a lot older, being deployed 70% in the dZone against harder competition opposed to the current guys making a lot less, having worse CF% despite being deployed 50/50 in dZone AND oZone against EASIER competition, being much younger, losing much more in faceoffs than winning etc. but somehow that's okay and they're good because they are cheap? Not to mention that it also requires Green to deploy his top 6 guys in unfavorable deployment that Beagle was used on, because he shelters the bottom 6 instead. I think paying 3m for Beagle is better than paying FOUR guys with center eligibility to play 4c (MacEwen, Graovac, Michaelis, and Boyd) adding up to 3m to do a worse job than old man beags.

As you said, Myers isn't comparable to Gudbranson or Sbisa. I mentioned Myers eats a lot of minutes because he brings stability to the team in the backend and Green clearly trusts him far more than the revolving dmen he had in the past in all situations. The alternative of not overpaying for Myers who has been solid with the Canucks so far is continuing to sign players like MDZ, Pouliot, Guddy, Sbisa, Hutton, Schenn etc. to play his minutes... i mention these guys cuz that's all you can really get for cheap and available through FA, because solid players are hard to come by without overpaying through FA, since it's tougher to convince them to come join when the team isn't a contender, and that's IF they're even available.

Idk why canuck fans hate Myers so much and ignore what he's doing on the ice, of course he's not Makar or playing on a GG team like the AVs, but he is definitely playing out his contract... i rather myers eat 20+min than any of those revolving dmen above eating 20+ minutes a night instead of him.

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerreport.php?fromseason=20202021&thruseason=20202021&playerid=8474574&sit=5v5&stype=2
considering he plays for lolnux and how much of a joke this season was, he far exceeded no? unless im missing something here? 6m means you divide his performance by 6? idk anymore lol..

http://naturalstattrick.com/playerteams.php?fromseason=20202021&thruseason=20202021&stype=2&sit=5v5&score=all&stdoi=std&rate=n&team=ALL&pos=D&loc=B&toi=800&gpfilt=none&fd=&td=&tgp=410&lines=single&draftteam=ALL

hockeyviz, and other analytic websites show he's pretty much a staple for the Canucks backend and how much Green relies on him in all situation and is actually providing positive results to the team.

You completely missed the point again when I asked if Tanev was around instead of Myers, who is going to play 20+ a night instead of Myers. Who is playing the voided minutes Myers is currently playing? Chatfield? or I think you basically answered it earlier with Sbisa and Guddy etc.
Tanev is not going to play 40min unfortunately, the reason why im asking who is filling the void for myers is because Tanev played close to 20min with the Canucks and so did Myers. So if your'e saving 6m from not having Myers, and re-signing tanev to 4.5m, where is the 1.5m gonna be used to upgrade the void left by Myers 20+ minutes? So im asking where you can find a better player than Myers for 1.5m??? since it's so self explanatory, i'd like to know..



It goes both ways though, it's so easy to play hindsight. I mean if Benning could've predicted that there was a pandemic coming and the cap is staying flat instead of going up 85m as expected, and Luongo was gonna retire, giving us 3m in penalties it wouldn't be much of an issue with almost 7m to play with. Luongo retiring was the biggest hit, since other teams also suffers from the flat cap, but luongo recapture penalty is just our team.

In your example of retaining Toffoli, instead of Myers for a team need, i think the backend needs much more help than upfront, especially when only Hughes and Schmidt is locked up.
If toffoli was around, it would definitely make the team upfront a lot better for sure, however Hoglander filled that void quite nicely and overachieved my expectations

Hoglander had more 5v5 points than Ryan O'Reilly, Elias Lindholm, Anze Kopitar, Nick Suzuki, Nazem Kadri, Brady Tkachuk, Jack Hughes, Anthony Mantha in as many games played. If you look at 5v5 points/60 (minimum 600 TOI), the list adds Sidney Crosby, Nicklas Backstrom, Kevin Fiala, Blake Wheeler, Matthew Tkachuk, Travis Konecny, Taylor Hall, Clayton Keller, Andrei Svechnikov, Jamie Benn. And Hoglander only had 1 less point than Brayden Point, Sebastian Aho, Claude Giroux, Johnny Gaudreau in as much ice time. He was 2nd on the Canucks in 5v5 points behind Brock Boeser... in his rookie season.

If Toffoli was here, Hoglander wouldn't have had the season nor the opportunity to grow his game with top 6 minutes as much as right now. I can't say the same for our backend, like chatfield or anyone in the system currently to eat the minutes Myers is currently eating. The issue and question with Myers contract is if he will decline severely in his last couple years of contract to the point that sibsa is the better option.
If we go back in time before Myers was signed, and you were the GM with 6m in cap space to spend, you really wouldn't try to address the backend after constant failures of revolving dmen like pouliot playing hefty minutes?? I remember wanting these scrubs out, and thankfully we don't have to see that anymore because Myers filled that void. Now we get to watch the prospects play with Myers, instead of watching the prospects playing with revolving dmen and expecting them to perform...



This is my fear too. Especially when he recently stated that he is aggressively looking at all option including buyouts, FA, trades to make the team better for next season. The media and fan pressure of firebenning meta got to him, instead of standing his ground to stick with his plan to compete after next season when all dead contracts are off the books. I think the team will automatically be better next season from the fact that it's back to pacific division.

No, that is not at all what I said. Neither player is useless, but sometimes not having a player (and getting that free cap space) is more valuable to a team than having that player @ an overpaid price because we might be able to do something better (more bang-for-your-buck) with that money.




That says more about Benning's inability to put together a good bottom-6 / balanced team than anything.



Then find a different way to get a D-man. Or be a better negotiator through free-agency. Or draft better, or sign better college free-agents. Your expectations for what a good GM should be doing are too low.

Teams like Colorado and Tampa have elite defenses without anyone being overpaid (other than EJ, which was a contract signed years ago by different management). Good GM's figure out a way. Ours and his apologists just have excuses.



Look up Stecher vs. Myers this year. Stecher had better underlying stats despite getting paid a quarter of what Myers does. And Myers wasn't exactly playing tough minutes as the Edler - Schmidt were the match-up pair for the most part.

CF% Rel / FF% Rel / xGF%

Myers is better offensively, but not anywhere close to making up that pay discrepancy.



My man, are you high?

This year, we had Myers and not Tanev.

If we had Tanev and not Myers, Tanev would take those ~20 minutes and do it better (+1.5M)

The other 40 minutes are irrelevant to the Tanev vs Myers discussion. I'm talking about these 2 in a vacuum because no Myers = space to keep Tanev+.



I would, just with a different option. There's no doubt that we were (and still are) in need of a top-4 D-men. But again, there's a time and place to overpay, Myers ain't that.

This post was edited by LuLer on May 25 2021 04:23pm

Holy shit what is happening in here

no playoffs = hockey talk



I completely agree, but Myers is valuable to the team even though he's overpaid because we already saw what happened when he wasn't there to fill the void. Unless you actually prefer watching revolving dmen becuase they're cheaper and with the saved cap how would you improve the backend?




I agree again, it's already hard enough to find a good 3C but these players can't even outplay Beags in the 4C role. He has been used more like a 3C for the team cuz Gaudette sadly could not play the 3C role. Although to be fair, when he signed those bottom 6 contracts is when the team didn't have a set core to build around, nor ready prospects and they were just fillers til our farm system developed some players. Who knew the team would hit jackpots in the draft without any top 5 picks and significantly speed up the process.



How would you find a different way to get a D-man though??
Didn't Benning actually try all those options you listed before signing Myers?

Draft better -> Failed here, other than Hughes he had nobody in the system developed or ready, Rathbone seems promising but he is just about ready now to see whats up, juolevi seems like a bust, woo is still far away, brisebois etc. unless you resort to drafting all dmen instead of BPA in draft?? i dont like that idea.

Sign better college FAs -> he gambled on Stecher, Teves, Rafferty etc. & the best he got was stecher. How do you know who's "better college FA" to target though without playing the hindsight game?

He also gambled through FA for short term guys which resulted in revolving door-men for many years and prevented himself from being locked up to a bad contract, and the result was Green being forced to play MDZ & Bartkowski

He even scouted undrafted players & pray they turn out to be gems, --> holm, chatfield, sautner, doesn't seem like it so far though.

So i guess he finally took the last option and went for Myers?? At least he has been quite solid for the Canucks.

Benning definitely could've negotiated better, but his FA negotiation is trash af, but what can you do when your org is not a contender? low ball/or pay 500k more to play on a shittier team and pray they accept or fuck off? and resort back to pouliots and sbisas??



Yes, now explain how you would go about negotiating them to join the Canucks on those contracts instead of elite teams like Tampa/Avs?? Majority of their dcore right now is from trades, aside from Hedman, Makar and Timmins. Shows how tough it is to even draft all on your own when elite teams like them had to resort through trade and sign. I too wish Canucks can trade for their needs without weakening other areas on the roster or giving up the future, but that's impossible without 1 or the other.



Stecher would be awesome at 1.7m, but if the Canucks qualified him he would be minimum 2.3m or something. Also if stecher went through arbitration, it would be much higher. He's definitely awesome character guy to have as he always gave it all, but come on, we both watched the nightmare when he and gaudette were extremely exposed af in playoffs. He's a 3rd pairing at best on a good team, and we are not a good team, as he was playing top 4 & recently pushed out in favor of Myers. I agree that paying 3.5m more for Myers over Stecher isn't worth it, but Myers has been more solid than Stecher has been with the Canucks, and he still averages more than 5+ minutes than Stetcher on both teams. Which means more rest for fresh legs for other RHD to go up against tough matchups instead of being forced to overplay their minutes.

puckIQ also shows more information if you're interested.
http://www.puckiq.com/woodmoney?season=20192020&tier=Elite&positions=d&team=van&group_by=player_season_team




I know we had Myers instead of Tanev this year. I've been asking you like 3 times now what your solution is if the Canucks did not have Myers and used 4.5m to re-sign Tanev instead. You take out myers for space to keep Tanev + 1.5m , but you should also be willing to take out what Myers brought to the team too... 20+ min RHD dman, relied heavily on by Green etc. i mean if that 1.5m is a game changer for the team, more so than what Myers currently brings to the team, im all for it.

You keep answering that Tanev replaces Myers minutes, but Tanev would always been with the team and never left. He would be playing the staple minutes with Hughes, Edler/Schmitty would be playing the match up. Myers was never here, so with the saved cap, who is being used to fill Myers minutes the past season and this season? I guess Benn would've still been here, and not traded for a pick & save 2m?




When do you figure the correct time & place to overpay would be? when Myers current contract is almost over? Maybe it's just me being tired of watching Pouliots being forced to play what Myers is playing, but as of now Myers is solid to us. The question is will he continue to be or severely decline to be scratched as soon as next season?

"last I heard, I'm still expecting that (Sedins joining) to happen. Heard optimism about Brown/Baumgartner re-signing. I just dont know about Clarke, I heard he had a big ask, when you have your leverage, you use it. I think Vancouver is weighing about what it wants to do there." Friedman

Kinda sad that aquaman has to bring in the sedins to appease the disgruntled market, idk if sedins will even be allowed to do anything other than be another yes men for the owner though. I wish we got some smart and experienced personnel into the org, but why is aquaman suddenly being cheaper than melynk?? is he getting sued for his blueberries?

Ugh i didnt want his assistants back, but i guess it's expected with Green coming back. It's too tough to play baumer's D system in the NHL consistently, it's just way too much risk than reward.

It must be really tough for aquaman to pay Clarke what he wants, but instead of using a bit of money to bring in the Sedins, why not just YOLO and pay Clarke what he wants? Is he asking 100m?? shiet. Plus the team just invested 25m on Demko and he's hoping ian stays.

This post was edited by Secksii on May 26 2021 05:32pm

I am sure Calgary would be willing to pay him quite a bit.

Markstroms numbers dropped in Calgary and you have to figure it is priority for the Flames to change that.

In the very least there is two teams very interested.

Aquaman is trying to save money without realizing how much of a bandwaggon city this is.

By being a cheapskate he is actually costing himself money lol.

I imagine there are about 20+ teams interested in dumping their g coach for Clarke, not many have a track record over the past 7-8 years like him I don't think.

It's incredible really.

All he has to say is I built Markstrom and Demko lol.

Pretty solid bargaining chips.

/e I don't know much about other teams goaltending coaches but I am wondering who else is in the elite company at that position.

This post was edited by Killingyouall on May 26 2021 07:13pm