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Feb 20 2024 04:38pm
Quote (El1te @ Feb 20 2024 03:42pm)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUAN-s2ZVww



Pretty much sums up how I feel on the practice.

If your employer is making you to work overtime without pay, they are taking advantage of you. If you don't wish to do so, simply ignore them. Ball is then in their court on how to respond.

Working overtime without compensation is a choice alot of people make, in the hopes of advancing their career or receiving a higher salary. Those hopes often do not pan out. At the end of the day, working for no compensation is your own choice.


This is a conversation I've had with employees old enough to be my father where they grossly overestimate how much the company values them as they spend a tonne of time on unpaid overtime. My hands are tied when it comes to promotions and raises.

This post was edited by duffman316 on Feb 20 2024 04:39pm
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Feb 20 2024 05:53pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 20 2024 09:23am)
Just as an example of how companies like to use Salaried positions to gain extra work from employees, without extra pay. For this example, we'll be assuming the company is retail, simply to keep it easy. ^YeeHaw the math should be easy to follow:

Employee A gets a position as a cashier. Pay is $20/hour. Set schedule, 40 hours a week, 52 weeks a year. Annual income? $41,600.

Employee B gets a position as assistant manager. Pay is salary, annual payout, $70,000 a year. Overtime is listed as required but rare, otherwise, 40 hour a week based salary.

Now's where it gets fun: Employee A never gets a single second of overtime. Their annual salary of $41,600 is based on 2080 hours worked. Their breakdown for hourly is literally the $20 they agreed to. Employee B finds out that "rare" on overtime means they consistently work 70 hours a week. Their $70,000 annual salary is unaffected by the increased hour requirement.

So, the Assistant Manager, employee B, is putting in 70*52=3640 hours a year. That boils down to 70,000/3640=$19.23/hour.

Funny thing is, if the company is short staffed on cashiers, will the cashier be given the opportunity for overtime? Not a chance. That's what the assistant is for.

Now here's where it gets really fun: Let's say employee A DID get the overtime, and work that same 70 hour week that the employee B does. Okay, so you're looking at 2080 hours at $20 ($41,600), 1560 hours at $30 ($46,800). Total annual income? $88,400.

The company uses the promise of higher pay to attract the person to ther salaried position, then forces them to work a number of hours that reduces their actual pay to below that of the hourly employee. They do it intentionally. Now, let's say the hourly employee, who's not getting overtime, gets a second job as a cashier elsewhere, that also pays that $20/hour, but this is a 30 hour a week position. Now we're back to 3640 hours*$20 an hour equates to an anual income of 72,800. Even WITHOUT OT pay increase, the cashier is more highly paid than the Assistant Manager AND they don't have to worry about randomly being called in or any other such disturbances to their lives.

People who promote these business practices designed directly to trick prospective employees into less pay for more hours while destroying their ability to take on a second job because of a constant "on call" status are garbage, and inappropriate in most fields.


Oh my lord. I know how it works. My point is that is what you agreed to do. Period. You don’t have to repeat yourself anymore.

This post was edited by YeeHaw on Feb 20 2024 05:53pm
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Feb 20 2024 07:55pm
People in Britain and France drink beer on their lunch break and get nothing done after 12pm UTC.

Our company made fun of them and called them frogs, etc. because of it.

The reason why America is more productive is because we answer the phone on Saturday. Not sure how much I care about Australia or if they are disproportionately affected.
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Feb 20 2024 08:15pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Feb 20 2024 08:55pm)
People in Britain and France drink beer on their lunch break and get nothing done after 12pm UTC.

Our company made fun of them and called them frogs, etc. because of it.

The reason why America is more productive is because we answer the phone on Saturday. Not sure how much I care about Australia or if they are disproportionately affected.


People still work when their relatives die in America because they can't get the day off. I think the Brits and French have it good by comparison.
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Feb 20 2024 08:18pm
Quote (duffman316 @ 20 Feb 2024 19:15)
People still work when their relatives die in America because they can't get the day off. I think the Brits and French have it good by comparison.


If it's an immediate family member, anyone can get off. Any reprisal by the employer will turn out poorly for the employer. FMLA covers it.

A majority of the time, when immediate family dies and the employee doesn't take off, they're estranged OR simply don't have any savings and can't cover their bills without working as normal.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 20 2024 08:23pm
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Feb 20 2024 08:24pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 20 2024 09:18pm)
If it's an immediate family member, anyone can get off. Any reprisal by the employer will turn out poorly for the employer. FMLA covers it.

A majority of the time, when immediate family dies and the employee doesn't take off, their estranged OR simply don't have any savings and can't cover their bills without working as normal.


Just sharing what appears to be a very common story minimum wage workers in america can relate to.
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Feb 20 2024 08:26pm
Quote (duffman316 @ 20 Feb 2024 19:24)
Just sharing what appears to be a very common story minimum wage workers in america can relate to.


Yeah, with minimum wage workers, it's not that the employer is preventing them from taking time off. Typically just that they can't afford the time off. It's a choice they make on their own.

It sucks, but it is what it is.
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Feb 20 2024 08:34pm
It is brilliant and i backed it 100%
I will clarify here that most of the people mad about this law think it is mandatory and that you are not allowed to be exploited anymore, this really upsets boomers.
The way the law works is you can ASK your employer to stop getting free work out of you outside rostered hours, if they refuse you can have the government spank them, you are still free to be exploited if that is what gets you off.

This post was edited by Plaguefear on Feb 20 2024 08:38pm
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Feb 20 2024 08:39pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Feb 20 2024 07:24pm)
Just sharing what appears to be a very common story minimum wage workers in america can relate to.


I can't recall now but wasn't Ontario implementing something similar to this. I haven't seen it I the news in a long time, but I do recall something.
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Feb 20 2024 08:40pm
Quote (Plaguefear @ 20 Feb 2024 19:34)
It is brilliant and i backed it 100%
I will clarify here that most of the people mad about this law think it is mandatory and that you are not allowed to be exploited anymore, this really upsets boomers.
The way the law works is you can ASK your employer to stop getting free work out of you outside rostered hours, if they refuse you can have the government spank them, you are still free to be exploited if that is what gets you off.


General question, as I'm not the most informed regarding Australia: When employers require that you be available to take phone calls and remote in from home, are they providing the employees the phone, phone service, computer/tablet, and internet connection to do so?
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