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Feb 9 2021 11:55am
Quote (cantero @ Feb 9 2021 04:40pm)
I got new claws for my dual claw kicker. If i remember right ias was pretty much useless for my build. But want to check the calculations, because i saw one BIG mistake. :wallbash:
I'm going to write here some maths about how fast i will kick with them. Jade talon (-10) as secondary claw.

New claws (GT 40ias).
https://i.imgur.com/xCqJ8dt.png

EIAS = ((120*ias)/(120+ias)) + skill_ias – WSM

EIAS_Frames long kick
0____12
9____11
19___10
31___9
45___8
63___7

EIAS_Frames short kicks
0____4
25____3
67___2---can't be reached


With the old claw (GT 0ias)
WSM = ( [-10] + [-30]) / 2 ) = -20

With 20 ias on gloves, fade (not burst of speed) and claws without bug:
EIAS = ((120*20)/(120+20)) + 0 – (-20) = 17 + 20 =37
I had 9 frames long kick and 3 frames short kicks.

With the new claw GT 40ias
WSM = ( [-10] + [-70]) / 2 ) = -40

With 20 ias on gloves, fade (not burst of speed) and claws without bug:
EIAS = ((120*60)/(120+60)) + 0 – (-40) = 40 + 40 =80
I will have 7 frames long kick and 3 frames short kicks.

WSM is averaged between claws when dual wielding, right?


Yes, its averaged, but you should not add ias into that scenario.
(-10 + -30) /2 = - 20

Wsm bug, then its:
(-10+-30)/2 + (-30 - -10) = -40

The claw ias is added in the EIAS formula after:
((120*60)/(120+60)) + 0 - (-20)
Or wsm bugged:
((120*60)/(120+60)) + 0 - (-40)
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Feb 9 2021 12:20pm
Quote (gel87 @ 9 Feb 2021 18:55)
Yes, its averaged, but you should not add ias into that scenario.
(-10 + -30) /2 = - 20

Wsm bug, then its:
(-10+-30)/2 + (-30 - -10) = -40

The claw ias is added in the EIAS formula after:
((120*60)/(120+60)) + 0 - (-20)
Or wsm bugged:
((120*60)/(120+60)) + 0 - (-40)


Ah, i see. I was not sure about where went the extra 40ias.
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Mar 3 2021 11:48am
amazing guide i 1 shot casters <3333 less math please
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Mar 28 2021 09:37am
Awesome guide!! I wonder how would you build a trap/kick hybrid on ladder with somewhat limited resources. The kick claw and 2sin3ls claw seems rather elusive to get on the league, not within my reach.

I guess what you would call a poor's man version. Bartucs would be a decent alternative to trap claw I guess but what about the kick claw? Also, would settling for 65fc be too bad?
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Mar 28 2021 12:44pm
Quote (MindVirus @ Mar 28 2021 05:37pm)
Awesome guide!! I wonder how would you build a trap/kick hybrid on ladder with somewhat limited resources. The kick claw and 2sin3ls claw seems rather elusive to get on the league, not within my reach.

I guess what you would call a poor's man version. Bartucs would be a decent alternative to trap claw I guess but what about the kick claw? Also, would settling for 65fc be too bad?


2assa/3ls is shoppable. (try to get a slow base) should not cost much.
Offhand claw "need" no other other stats and can be soc via larzuk.
Other usable are bartucs/jade talon/chaos suawaya 3ls/add.

I suggest u wsm bug.

Main hand claw:
Ias/fool's/2soc/5ctc amp: berber
(all i have seen for trade has been on ladder).
Adds like skills etc is ofc epic.

Since u dont have valk 08 i heavely suggest u wsm bug.

Theese claws May be hard to find. They should ideally be in -30 wsm base, but -20base May work good as well. If ur not able to get with fool's a none fools version can be used as well. And then u can use another plan vs palas and barbs. Basicly use a dw'um' + stormshield 'ber' with widowmaker at switch. Dw adds 2skills to help traps as well. Then u put up traps, mb and shit and shoot ga arrows, and switch to dw prior to impact. This will add the - 50 enemy pr and 25% ow.
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Mar 30 2021 03:26pm
Just seeing this guide now, haven't visited SnG in a long time lol miss you guys :bouncy:

I have to say, very nice writeup on the mechanics.
Im impressed.


I should at some point do a cleaner rewrite of a 2021 version of my kicksin, as I did recently just come back to East nl after a 10 year break.


some notes:

I still swear by Um'd Fleshripper for the majority of my duels.
and on c/c I'm using fury/chaos with +3ls/+3mb on both

Dweb is not as strong as it was 15 years ago when players did not have resist options, but will still destroy players that skimp. I rarely use it nowadays tho.
I think it's foolish for a pvp kicksin to not have wizardspike as an option in the stash, its only for a handful of matchups however.
Dancers still best pvp boots imho.

My view on this is that although damage numbers look good on paper, the reality of pvp is players will move out of the way, block hits, get knocked back and then walk out, so you will not see every hit landing as though it's a melee duel and both players are holding left mouse on one another.
So I try to optimize for a gameplay style where I can get in and out and cause damage without committing to melee.


that being said, I don't disagree with your choices, there are many variations of each pvp assassin type
and I'd like to see your sin in action.

as recommended by others, try OBS, it's free and allows both streaming and local recording with no restrictions on what you can do with it. much better quality recordings.
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Mar 30 2021 04:18pm
Quote (Ziecheik @ Mar 30 2021 11:26pm)
Just seeing this guide now, haven't visited SnG in a long time lol miss you guys :bouncy:

I have to say, very nice writeup on the mechanics.
Im impressed.


I should at some point do a cleaner rewrite of a 2021 version of my kicksin, as I did recently just come back to East nl after a 10 year break.


some notes:

I still swear by Um'd Fleshripper for the majority of my duels.
and on c/c I'm using fury/chaos with +3ls/+3mb on both

Dweb is not as strong as it was 15 years ago when players did not have resist options, but will still destroy players that skimp. I rarely use it nowadays tho.
I think it's foolish for a pvp kicksin to not have wizardspike as an option in the stash, its only for a handful of matchups however.
Dancers still best pvp boots imho.

My view on this is that although damage numbers look good on paper, the reality of pvp is players will move out of the way, block hits, get knocked back and then walk out, so you will not see every hit landing as though it's a melee duel and both players are holding left mouse on one another.
So I try to optimize for a gameplay style where I can get in and out and cause damage without committing to melee.


that being said, I don't disagree with your choices, there are many variations of each pvp assassin type
and I'd like to see your sin in action.

as recommended by others, try OBS, it's free and allows both streaming and local recording with no restrictions on what you can do with it. much better quality recordings.


Thanks for your reply :)

I saw your sin on youtube on dfc (diablo fighting championship) and you almost won vs that vt which won the campionship once or twice, GG :)

I have always liked your widow setup/tactic combination of switchbugging arrow dmg with dw um or fleshripper :) a smarth effective build :)

I do however see much difference between eunl and east.
On east they use 1 breakpoint less on nearly every char :p
Smiters seems to use 48fcr break on east, meanwhile on eu all serious ones use 85fcr/86fhr.
Hammers and smiters relay way more on charge/desync and grief on hammers with cube bo and such, meanwhile on eu both smiters and hammers on top level use 95% tele style.
Tvt barbs often use the 63fcr break on eu, and 37on on east, even though more and more go back to 40fcr due to recent server changes which makes 63 laggy, some go the other route and pick 86 (hidden fcr frame"sorta") to avoid the lags.
I also see very little oak usage on east.

There might be reasons, like ping and such and even older rule sets which makes it so, however those current dfc rules are very simular to eu rules, with exception of sorc.
On eu sorc are allowed to precast 95% es, but if es soso ur not allowed to use oak, and u can max use 5max res as "absorb", meanwhile sorb items are banned for es sorc, with the exception of nightwing and probarly the cold belt.

Anyway, east seems to value stats/abs/etc over fcr breaks on chars like assa/pala/barb, i have even seen necs who goes 75fcr eq just to have max block, and druid going 99fcr block setups.

However you should set a limit on plr..
Saw A soso rocking:
Death gloves
Sands
Snake cord
2/20/2x str/8x mana/20@/75plr ammu vs a nec.

So not even does that pnb nec with lvl 1 psn nova/lr or from white deal like 12hp of dmg each nova. Sorc also has 4,xk mana and oak :p

A full novamancer would maby kill 200-400 life of that soso with nova, and about the same for a rabi druid or plague/bow zon ^^
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Mar 30 2021 04:34pm
Quote (gel87 @ Mar 30 2021 06:18pm)
Thanks for your reply :)

I saw your sin on youtube on dfc (diablo fighting championship) and you almost won vs that vt which won the campionship once or twice, GG :)

I have always liked your widow setup/tactic combination of switchbugging arrow dmg with dw um or fleshripper :) a smarth effective build :)

I do however see much difference between eunl and east.
On east they use 1 breakpoint less on nearly every char :p
Smiters seems to use 48fcr break on east, meanwhile on eu all serious ones use 85fcr/86fhr.
Hammers and smiters relay way more on charge/desync and grief on hammers with cube bo and such, meanwhile on eu both smiters and hammers on top level use 95% tele style.
Tvt barbs often use the 63fcr break on eu, and 37on on east, even though more and more go back to 40fcr due to recent server changes which makes 63 laggy, some go the other route and pick 86 (hidden fcr frame"sorta") to avoid the lags.
I also see very little oak usage on east.

There might be reasons, like ping and such and even older rule sets which makes it so, however those current dfc rules are very simular to eu rules, with exception of sorc.
On eu sorc are allowed to precast 95% es, but if es soso ur not allowed to use oak, and u can max use 5max res as "absorb", meanwhile sorb items are banned for es sorc, with the exception of nightwing and probarly the cold belt.

Anyway, east seems to value stats/abs/etc over fcr breaks on chars like assa/pala/barb, i have even seen necs who goes 75fcr eq just to have max block, and druid going 99fcr block setups.

However you should set a limit on plr..
Saw A soso rocking:
Death gloves
Sands
Snake cord
2/20/2x str/8x mana/20@/75plr ammu vs a nec.

So not even does that pnb nec with lvl 1 psn nova/lr or from white deal like 12hp of dmg each nova. Sorc also has 4,xk mana and oak :p

A full novamancer would maby kill 200-400 life of that soso with nova, and about the same for a rabi druid or plague/bow zon ^^


yeah agreed, some players are talking plr limits. as well as no stacking of plr and +max poison res, same as gm sorb rules.

I like that dfc rules are up for debate, the rules have been stagnant for years, but the meta has evolved some.
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Mar 30 2021 06:23pm
also on your notes of east vs euro, I think its a lot more mixed now.
a lot of west play on east now, and some euro as well.

I think the same bps are used mostly.
you are right a lot of barbs are on 40fcr but some use 63.
oak is used by some.
sins all use 102fcr, druids are pretty much all vita 163fcr

there used to be a lot of tele only or tele heavy hammerdin players on east
but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the meta, that or today's hammerdins just suck.
I dueled a few on d2ga that still duel very tele heavy and I agree I think it's better in the hands of a good player.

I kinda like the cube buff rule that's become popular on east.
any prebuff is gm as long as it's in the cube.

so buff can still be part of builds but it's not nutty like someone doing full gc swaps to precast es and using half their stash for it.


edit:
also about that 86fcr bp, I would think that's actually worse cause of the recovery time on it.
but then maybe it is a solution to tele lag if its a bit slower actually lol idk

This post was edited by Ziecheik on Mar 30 2021 06:26pm
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Mar 30 2021 11:12pm
Quote (Ziecheik @ Mar 31 2021 02:23am)
also on your notes of east vs euro, I think its a lot more mixed now.
a lot of west play on east now, and some euro as well.

I think the same bps are used mostly.
you are right a lot of barbs are on 40fcr but some use 63.
oak is used by some.
sins all use 102fcr, druids are pretty much all vita 163fcr

there used to be a lot of tele only or tele heavy hammerdin players on east
but it seems to have fallen out of favor in the meta, that or today's hammerdins just suck.
I dueled a few on d2ga that still duel very tele heavy and I agree I think it's better in the hands of a good player.

I kinda like the cube buff rule that's become popular on east.
any prebuff is gm as long as it's in the cube.

so buff can still be part of builds but it's not nutty like someone doing full gc swaps to precast es and using half their stash for it.


edit:
also about that 86fcr bp, I would think that's actually worse cause of the recovery time on it.
but then maybe it is a solution to tele lag if its a bit slower actually lol idk


Okay, yes that may be the case, I just know depending of platstyle's i saw on youtube :P
The Cube prep is super :)
All barbs/amas use it on eu as well.
I like it on sins and even shape dudus if im going 100% GM. But my wolf got so extreamly low life in human form that just prebo in stash :P
Sins may keep his 2 x 6/6/10/-10 claws, maras, 2 sojs, demon limb in cube. (if he also use a bo shield he need to drop that for use of ench/preclaws), he need to drop his cta to do ench xD

The 86fcr break on barbs helps with lag, due to the barb landing on the new position earlier, he still need to w8 for next tele/wirl etc.
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