Comprehensive Prof Gain Guide. - Topic

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Dec 8 2020 11:26pm

Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 9 2020 06:14pm)

First of all that looks like 50 attempts not 60.

I can say you're correct for this statement:

someone else confirmed this who i'd trust, however Paul may have just changed the number so i will check it's still the case if i decide to rewrite this "comprehensive prof guide"

I am completely willing to accept you're correct on things which are right.
In fact i can also accept you suggesting my 20% is "inaccurate" which is correct because the sample size isn't large enough. It's basically impossible for me to prove whether its a 20% chance to gain a prof or a 20.1% chance to gain a prof if i am told it's one or the other. The size of the sample needed to give you a pretty reasonable idea would be around 10 million and even then you could still call that inaccurate.

However, when proving that the chance of prof is Not 50% and given a sample size of 2500 which comes out extremely close to 20%, I can say with 100% certainty there's enough evidence to say it's not a 50% chance.
I've already done my sample size of 2500, and getting more like 21% I suspect this is simply randomness though.

Lets try the old "balls in a bag" if you dislike dice.
We have a non see through bag with 5 balls in, 4 of them are red, 1 is blue.
You put your hand in and pull out 1 ball without looking
Option 1: A red ball
Option 2: A blue ball
Is this a 50/50 chance?

After this nice long discussion... I think I have a better way to explain it... please bare with me:

With each "Successful Hit Check", you either get 0 or 1 prof point.
Prof point(s) is capped to a maximum of 10 per Wave.

1 Action vs 1 Monster has to make a "Successful Hit Check" = either 0 or 1 prof.
1 Action vs Multiple (say 9) increases your chances because you can get up to 9 "Successful Hit Checks" = 0 up to 9 prof points (1 Action)

What do you think... is that a better explanation?

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 8 2020 11:28pm

Bigheaded

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#32

Dec 8 2020 11:27pm

Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 9 2020 05:26am)

After this nice long discussion... I think I have a better way to explain it... please bare with me:

With each "Successful Hit Check", you either get 0 or 1 prof point. Now this is capped to a maximum of 10 per Wave.

1 Action vs 1 Monster has make a "Successful Hit Check" = either 0 or 1 prof.
1 Action vs Multiple (say 9) increases your chances because you can get up to 9 "Successful Hit Checks" = 0 up to 9 prof points (1 Action)

What do you think... is that a better explanation?

that's perfect.

izParagonzi

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#33

Dec 8 2020 11:45pm

Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 9 2020 06:27pm)

that's perfect.

Thanks...

Fixed my errors with previous edit:

With each "Successful Hit Check", you either get 0 or 1 prof point.
Prof point(s) is capped to a maximum of 10 per Wave.

1 Action vs 1 Monster has to make a "Successful Hit Check" = either 0 or 1 prof.
1 Action vs Multiple (say 9) increases your chances because you can get up to 9 "Successful Hit Checks" = 0 up to 9 prof points (1 Action)
________________

I hope it shows what I was trying to reflect in the initial post...

I now have something perfect to put into "Prof Hunter Guide" when I get done with all the testing.

Oh, that healing test I was doing... I think Paul coded it so that no one can abuse it... basically, the first wave has to be cleared. Mind you, I have not tested full "log out/in" either. Mind you, would it be worth the damn effort...

izParagonzi

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#34

Dec 20 2020 09:32pm

With each "Successful Hit Check", you either get 0 or 1 prof point.
Prof point(s) is capped to a maximum of 10 per Wave.

Action = Mouse/Touchscreen(pad) Click/Press:
1 Action vs 1 Monster has to make a "Successful Hit Check" = either 0 or 1 prof.
1 Action vs Multiple (say 9) increases your chances because you can get up to 9 "Successful Hit Checks" = 0 up to 9 prof points (1 Action)
__________________

So, if we take Bigheadeds average of 20% over 'x' number of actions (clicks), we COULD (not would) say that 1 out of 5 Actions (click actions) you gain 1 prof point. Yes or No? I believe the answer is no because that average is based on using Multi attack actions.

Outside of above, this means killspeed has little use for Prof Hunting, also, this also means that we can use this for a "Concept" guide where Magic Luck is the dominant feature and Prof Hunting is the benefit from this when using Magic Luck gear instead of Enhanced Effect gear... or vice versa.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 20 2020 09:34pm

Bigheaded

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#35

Dec 23 2020 12:25pm

Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 21 2020 03:32am)

So, if we take Bigheadeds average of 20% over 'x' number of actions (clicks), we COULD (not would) say that 1 out of 5 Actions (click actions) you gain 1 prof point. Yes or No? I believe the answer is no because that average is based on using Multi attack actions

actually in my tests there were no multi attack actions, this included powerstrike only in these tests. This was 3000 actions total in groups of 6 groups of 500. all 6 sets of 500 actions were between 19% and 21%

I have had further tests in group climbs which agree with a 20% chance, I suggest you do your own tests like you did here:
https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=80541143&f=74
I see no reason for you to argue the 20% without showing some form of your own testing.

I am 100% certain it's a better chance than 15% and lower than 25% otherwise my figures would show otherwise. I can't narrow it down precisely without further numbers though, however it would be odd if Paul programmed it to be 20.5% or even 21%, makes more sense to pick the nice round 20.

I also find it very odd that a player who is a "prof hunter" has his highest prof at 7. I don't even hunt for prof and i have 2 different charms at 17.

This post was edited by Bigheaded on Dec 23 2020 12:25pm

izParagonzi

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#36

Dec 23 2020 12:44pm

Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 24 2020 07:25am)

You missed the point of that statement.

I am gathering certain information regarding the % rate of a weapon (i.e. your 20% average calculation based on weapon actions) vs the % rate when using a Heal during the same wave... or when attacking casting.

I can tell you right now that healing actions have a MUCH higher % chance to gaining a (singular) prof point compared to attacking with a weapon.

Example... I attack 5 times (5 actions and not using any ability) vs 1 monster and 5 heal actions on the same monster (which hasn't died) and get 1 Attack prof (weapon) and 3 or more Heal prof. So... healing prof gain % is higher than weapon attack prof.

EDIT: Group climbs DON'T count for prof gain... I pointed this out... Prof gain is based on actions... not speed climbing.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 23 2020 12:47pm

Bigheaded

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#37

Dec 23 2020 12:50pm

Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 23 2020 06:44pm)

Example... I attack 5 times (5 actions and not using any ability) vs 1 monster and 5 heal actions on the same monster (which hasn't died) and get 1 Attack prof (weapon) and 3 or more Heal prof. So... healing prof gain % is higher than weapon attack prof.

I'll have a look. Would be good to know the % chance of prof for the heal charms also rather than a random guess.

This post was edited by Bigheaded on Dec 23 2020 12:51pm

izParagonzi

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#38

Dec 23 2020 01:00pm

Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 24 2020 07:50am)

I'll have a look. Would be good to know the % chance of prof for the heal charms also rather than a random guess.

I would take a guess that it is 33% based on watching the +1's on the Prof table during climbs.

When I solo, and the monster is nearly dead, I will heal as much as I can to gain prof points per wave.
Example: Maximum 10 prof points per wave, 1 monster appears (wave), I will attack it, and if in 3 hits it is close to dying, I will switch to Healing to gain more prof points to reach max 10 prof per wave (yup, this will not always be the case, especially if you get a crit hit killing off that monster or if at full health etc)

As for group climbs... you won't find an avg for healing until you are around level 65+ (depending on group gear/dynamic etc)

EDIT: Prof hunting is totally different to normal gameplay.

1: Wave = 10 max prof gain
2: Utilise each wave to gain the MOST prof points before moving on to the next wave
3: Group climbs of 5 people in a 9 square area divides your POTENTIAL to gain prof by 5.
4: Using items to 1-3 hit killing is counter productive to a Prof hunter.
5: Prof gain and full group climbs should be based around Magic Luck gear instead of EE gear (sounds funny, but no one has done this to my knowledge... 1-MQ full group climb using Magic Luck gear only... of course EE Healing for group dynamic survival etc)

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 23 2020 01:21pm

izParagonzi

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#39

Dec 23 2020 01:49pm

Could not edit post.

Looked at the Softcore Ranking tables for Ladder:

Weapons: https://ladderslasher.d2jsp.org/index.php?a=3&h=0&t=1 and the highest is Rank 34 Dagger
Charms: https://ladderslasher.d2jsp.org/index.php?a=3&h=0&t=2&c=0 and the highest is Rank 43 Ice

Now if you look through those Ladder Rankings on Softcore, you may come to a number of conclusions. As for myself, I am going to say, Weapon prof gain is SHIT in comparison to Charms... shit, how many years have a lot of those players been playing this game and not even one of them has above 50 Rank... I mean 10+ fucking years.

Yeah... none of them are prof hunters, they are normal players doing speed runs etc... my Bufcore character has Rank 6 Battleaxe/Spear and Rank 5 Focus with only 7 MQ's under his belt starting LATE this year... imagine the ranking if 9+ years of solo'ing.

Anyway... it is a matter of perspective... a prof hunter only wants to improve the characters potential without relying on gear.

EDIT: Expect a nerf to Charms in the near future after this post. Now that it has been identified that charms gain prof faster than weapon, Paul will eventually take action and change things (good/bad, up to him)

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 23 2020 01:52pm

izParagonzi

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#40

Jan 6 2021 01:10am

Quote (Cheeya @ Jan 6 2021 06:57pm)

Nobody but you is confused on speed vs clicks. Groups are more clicks per unit time and you dont group... so that must make you a pretty shitty prof hunter...

Try a numbers game:

solo max 3 monster wave using revenge and 1 hit killing per click vs 5 man group max 9 monster wave using Multistrike and 1 hit killing per click.
Solo = 3 max prof points.
Group = 9 max prof points (divided by 5)

Now you want to say charging up abilities while I am using heavy weapons and you are using a normal weapon, okay;

Revenge vs Multistrike vs max monster wave:
Revenge = 3x charge up per second (during that same second, I am healing which is giving me healing prof points at a 0-1 per second)
Multistrike = 1 charge up per second per click = chance of 0-1 prof point per second

I gain Prof healing while charging up both Salvation and Revenge at the same rate as you, but I do more damage with a heavy weapon of same tier / ee as you and also release my Revenge ability sooner based on that fact, and that Revenge damage is divided by 6 vs Multistrike damage is divided by 9

Quote (FloppyWaffles @ Jan 6 2021 07:03pm)

i ask because you say you want to make your character stronger, but if you play just for prof, then i ask what milestones/goals are you aiming for? or is it literally just to watch the prof screen say "+1"

total ranks don't matter when you're only using one of them at a time. 6 ee is still only 6 ee. 6 isn't that noticeable. 20 is noticeable.

basically, you know that most people disagree with your ranking of events. but prof cap per fight? do you really PREFER staying in a fight long enough to hit the cap, as opposed to moving to the next screen? i'm confused. it's like saying warm lights suck because EP's could have spawned there. just finish the map and make another :rolleyes:

Basically the same as below with some other additions:
All 16 characters ranked in the top 10 for ALL heavy weapons.

EDIT: If I wanted to, I can get all 16 to Rank 10 with ease in all heavy weapons, I mean I done something similar when I started and joined Kirby... got to rank 10 sword (a lot harder in those days) before doing 1 master quest.

Quote (Cheeya @ Jan 6 2021 07:26pm)

his only goal is to be the top of the heavy profs which lets be honest... on hc thats basically a gimme... Nobody wastes time with those trash items when they use/find good gear much more efficiently.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Jan 6 2021 01:16am

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