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Dec 6 2020 10:52pm
Dang EDIT: Heading should have been: "Concise Prof Gain Guide"

Subject Matter:
A single Attack/Heal ACTION = 0-1 Prof Point. Max Cap 10 per Wave excl Event Mod.
A multi ability Attack/Heal ACTION = Increases % chance to get 1 Prof Point &/or (0-X) Max Cap 10 per Wave excl Event Mod.

Statement(s): They are both correct.
#1 "Multistrike vs 9 monster wave gives you a 90% chance to get 1 prof point"
#2 "Multistrike vs 9 Monster wave gives you a chance of 0-9 prof point as long as it is under Max Cap of 10 (excl Event Mod)

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 6 2020 11:10pm
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Dec 7 2020 06:37am
Where are you getting the numbers from your #1 statement?
If you're suggesting it's a 10% chance and 10% * 9 = 90%, then you've done the maths wrong.

This is because you can gain multiple prof points from the same multistrike as you've stated. The way to calculate 9 separate 10% chances would be 1-(0.9) which is about a 65% chance to gain at least 1 prof point.
To get a 90% chance is saying we have a 20% chance to get 1 prof point per hit. i.e 1-(0.8)
The chance of EXACTLY 1 prof point if you have 10% per attack is around 35%


If you have some evidence that it's 10% per attack, then just say that rather than making up complete nonsense.
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Dec 7 2020 01:45pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 8 2020 01:37am)
Where are you getting the numbers from your #1 statement?
If you're suggesting it's a 10% chance and 10% * 9 = 90%, then you've done the maths wrong.

This is because you can gain multiple prof points from the same multistrike as you've stated. The way to calculate 9 separate 10% chances would be 1-(0.9^10) which is about a 65% chance to gain at least 1 prof point.
To get a 90% chance is saying we have a 20% chance to get 1 prof point per hit. i.e 1-(0.8^10)
The chance of EXACTLY 1 prof point if you have 10% per attack is around 35%


If you have some evidence that it's 10% per attack, then just say that rather than making up complete nonsense.


9/10 chance... pedantic much
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Dec 7 2020 02:18pm
Went to Edit... but time ran out:

So the rating is out of 10... there are 9 mob, each 1 gives you a chance to get either a 0 or 1 ... so... 90% chance to get 1 prof point for that ACTION, whereas with a single action, it is 50/50.

BUT... biggest Captain Obvious info: NOT all types of actions (Melee/Cast/Heal) gain has the same % chance to get 1 prof point.
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Dec 7 2020 02:45pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 7 2020 07:45pm)
9/10 chance... pedantic much


your maths is still completely wrong but i'm not going any further this with.

This post was edited by Bigheaded on Dec 7 2020 02:49pm
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Dec 7 2020 04:43pm
Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 8 2020 09:45am)
your maths is still completely wrong but i'm not going any further this with.


It isn't mathematics, it is perception:

1-10 Prof point gain per wave (capped @ 10)
9 Monster spawn wave appears = 9 chances out of 10 (Prof Cap) to get 1 prof point
Hence 90% chance to gain 1 prof point.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 7 2020 04:43pm
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Dec 8 2020 08:34am
Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 7 2020 10:43pm)
It isn't mathematics, it is perception:

1-10 Prof point gain per wave (capped @ 10)
9 Monster spawn wave appears = 9 chances out of 10 (Prof Cap) to get 1 prof point
Hence 90% chance to gain 1 prof point.


i told myself i wouldn't argue with you, but you're clearly just wrong here and I doubt i'll get through but i'm bored so lets do it anyway.
The main flaw in this argument is that not all these mobs will just die in 1 hit, you could gain 5 prof points off of the first mob if you happen to be using a 150 vit tank, 5 prof points off of the second and 0 of all the rest of the mobs.
Whilst a 200 int Warlock could just 1 hit all of them and not gain any prof points. Just noticed the maths is actually wrong in my first reply, as I was counting 10 hits, not 9. The core maths was correct of 1-(0.9 to the power of 9) of chance for prof. so just 0.9 to power 9 to not get prof which is 38.7%
To be clear, you can gain all 10 prof points off of 1 single mob, as this still counts as a wave. You have not factored this in at all.


Also, you CANNOT say you have a 90% chance to gain 1 prof point without factoring in the chance of it happening.
Lets arguably say you have 3 die and roll all 3 of them at the same time, what is the chance of at least one of them being a 6?

The normal method of doing this is using a tree diagram:


"IF" the chance of getting a prof point happened to by 1 in 6, then the chance of getting at least 1 prof point from 3 hits is 100%-(chance of not getting a 6, the number at the bottom). So 100% - 57.9% = 42.1% or you could add up all 7 results which resulted in at least one 6.


So there's two reasons why your 90% is absolute garbage.
Do something useful and do 500 hits and count the amount of prof points gained from the 500, I'll do a 500 as well for arguments sake then we have a test sample of 1000 and get a reasonable idea of the chance of getting prof.
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Dec 8 2020 10:03am
Useful information which should be taken into account:
1. You do not gain prof for hitting for 0, this includes the spider illusions and goocidics melee block. (requires further testing, no prof in 15-20 hits isn't sufficient evidence, however i am posting it as there is a trend)
2. Max prof per wave is 10 (+potential event modifier). Requires testing in case this changed
3. You do not gain prof points until the mob level is at least 1 higher than your current level. Equal to your level does not yield prof.

Results for 500 hits:
First 500: Club prof 11, mob level 12->17. Number of 0 hits ~15. Club prof changed from 5816 to 5918, so roughly 20%
Second 500: Club prof 11, mob level 17->22. Number of 0 hits ~3. Club prof changed from 5918 to 6018, so exactly 20%


Lets suggest that 20% happens to be the correct chance of prof per hit. We can reapply my maths 1-(0.8 to the power of 9) to see that the chance of receiving at least one prof from a multistrike is 86.6%, however if you used multistrike on 100 different waves of 9 mobs. The amount of prof you can expect from those is still 20% of 900, which is 180.

There's still a small chance of error as a 1000 sample size isn't large enough.
Any issues with any of the above ?
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Dec 8 2020 11:51am
Quote (Bigheaded @ Dec 9 2020 03:34am)
... Also, you CANNOT say you have a 90% chance to gain 1 prof point without factoring in the chance of it happening... blah continue etc


Perception laddie.

You ever think the statement wasn't taking all that long winded garbage you typed into consideration, you ever heard of reading between the lines?;

1 multi ACTION hitting and killing all 9 monsters. (dumbed it down for you)

Subject Matter:
A single Attack/Heal ACTION = 0-1 Prof Point. Max Cap 10 per Wave excl Event Mod.
A multi ability Attack/Heal ACTION = Increases % chance to get 1 Prof Point &/or (0-X) Max Cap 10 per Wave excl Event Mod.
________________

Following comment is general blah,

"Damn anyone would think that explaining something outside of mathematics is wrong, we have to put a number to everything... I mean... wtf... you suddenly drop a bottle on the ground, and two things could happen when it impacts the ground

#1 Doesn't break
#2 Breaks into pieces

I mean, shit, if #2 happens, suddenly it becomes a numbers game... it can ONLY break into 2-9 pieces... I mean what the fuck .... it broke into pieces.... who gives a shit about how many... the impact is what really matters... it breaks or doesn't.

You know when the world is going to the dogs aye... when the dogs start barking out numbers."

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Dec 8 2020 11:53am
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Dec 8 2020 03:21pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 8 2020 05:51pm)
You know when the world is going to the dogs aye... when the dogs start barking out numbers.

Statement(s): They are both correct.
#1 "Multistrike vs 9 monster wave gives you a 90% chance to get 1 prof point"


Says the one who posts crud and believes it to be true. Heck you haven't even explained the above, is it to get exactly 1 prof point? Or more than one? If it's exactly 1 then it's WAAAY out.

Quote (izParagonzi @ Dec 8 2020 05:51pm)
Perception laddie.


I perceive all of your posts to be nonsense.


The entire point here is that you posted a guide and half the information is wrong or missing or unclear, how is this an any definition a "guide"?
New players whom are interested in proficiency may look at this and get entirely the wrong idea. This is the reason i'm a bit angry about the situation.
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