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#61
Aug 11 2020 11:36am
Quote (SBD @ Aug 11 2020 10:26am)
Being a conservative does not mean keeping everything exactly the way it is. It's toning proposed change to moderate levels. You may have extremists that fit your definition. On average the general population is for progression, that includes conservatives or you would not see the changes you see today. Changes might not happen as fast as if we were all die hard liberals but that is not necessarily a bad thing as not every idea is a good idea.


I can agree with that in the general sense of the word. Conservatives may accept that a problem exists but are skeptical of solutions and are meant to slow progress. Often times, the progress that people advocate for isn't really progress and can have disastrous consequences (i.e. most revolutions). It's a delicate balance and both sides need each other.

Conservatives in the US should be called regressives and are "progressive" in the sense that they advocate for some pretty radical change. Maybe progressive isn't the right word, let's go with radical. Any time you advocate for FUNDAMENTAL change, that is by definition radical.
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#62
Aug 11 2020 11:37am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 11 2020 12:33pm)
>Scarcity doesn't exist because i'm a privileged American and no one is starving or living in poverty where i live therefore the whole world must be like this.


i work in the worldwide manufacturing business on the highest scale and also have an LLC in local food production. we can 100% feed the world with what we instead put in landfills or stuff down livestock's throats. instead we write it off as a corporate loss to get a nominally lower tax bill. i do this for a fucking living clown, but sure keep citing 30 year old econ books.

if the government made an initiative to collect non perishables instead of putting them in dumpsters we'd have the 3rd world into the 2nd in a decade.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 11 2020 12:35pm)
The issue is distribution, not amount


b b b b bingo

This post was edited by thesnipa on Aug 11 2020 11:37am
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#63
Aug 11 2020 11:43am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 11 2020 07:29pm)
I grew up there and travel there consistently, its not hard to see how utterly trash many of those countries remain even 30 years after Communism ended. It's not hard to remember in the 90s living in a country that had less GDP/capita than El-Salvador at the time. Most young people are doing whatever they can to get the fuck out and come to western capitalistic countries.




I'm not against 'solving the issue'. A lot of issues need solving and the only answer you guys are proposing is to increase benefits/spending while completely disregarding self-sustainability. Me mentioning a system becoming insolvent by 2035 doesn't mean do nothing, it means what we have now isn't working and we have to do something about it.

I broke out of poverty and probably will settle into a middle class existence, maybe middle upper with my MBA. I want my daughter as an adult to live in a world where she's not saddled with massive taxes forcing her to be a wage slave because we were short sighted thinking our current needs are most important so we leveraged everything 10x cause yolo.


Wage slavery exists due to an imbalance between wages and the cost of life. It's what you end up with when you're brave enough to go to college and take on those loans that should be illegal.
Wage slavery does not come in when taxes are higher, if those taxes are used for things that improve people's living standards. Raise those taxes, cut those military spendings, and start investing in access to education, medicine, food and housing. You know, those things that are basic human rights according to some document that has some signatures on it.

Your self sufficiency won't do anything to help your daughter. As long as you vote for people who create a country where she'll spend the rest of her life only one medical emergency from bankruptcy, you are voting against her interests.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Aug 11 2020 07:35pm)
The issue is distribution, not amount


With how three of us are repeating this for two pages now, ofthevoid's failure to understand it is clearly a case of willful ignorance.

This post was edited by Leevee on Aug 11 2020 11:44am
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#64
Aug 11 2020 11:45am
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 11 2020 01:37pm)
i work in the worldwide manufacturing business on the highest scale and also have an LLC in local food production. we can 100% feed the world with what we instead put in landfills or stuff down livestock's throats. instead we write it off as a corporate loss to get a nominally lower tax bill. i do this for a fucking living clown, but sure keep citing 30 year old econ books.

if the government made an initiative to collect non perishables instead of putting them in dumpsters we'd have the 3rd world into the 2nd in a decade.



b b b b bingo


Giving poor people countries food doesn't solve things in the long term. That's evident with places like Haiti. Doing that in the long term destroys their ability to feed themselves (as farmers stop growing crops because they can't make money on them). Bad idea, that's why USAID has shifted towards helping those places become self sustainable. But doubt you knew this since you live this in your mid western US existence and don't care about economics.
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#65
Aug 11 2020 11:50am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 11 2020 12:45pm)
Giving poor people countries food doesn't solve things in the long term. That's evident with places like Haiti. Doing that in the long term destroys their ability to feed themselves (as farmers stop growing crops because they can't make money on them). Bad idea, that's why USAID has shifted towards helping those places become self sustainable. But doubt you knew this since you live this in your mid western US existence and don't care about economics.


yeah you''re right my decade of working with the boys and girls club to make community gardens to help poor communities become more self reliant has taught me nothing in this arena..... :rolleyes:

you're whole "u grew up in america so u cant possibly understand world politics" schtick is pathetic. i came from the bottom 10% of household incomes, grew up through evictions, ate out of cans my whole life, and had the power go off about 5 times a year growing up. im not a dirt nosed ruskie tho, so i couldnt possibly understand that faux-communism crony politics are bad...

ive literally been on the ground floor of fortune 500 companies putting in factories in mexico, honduras, and guatemala to help provide jobs to fight cartel activity in the area. i was there when they poured the concrete floor and again when they flipped the switch for opening day. so why dont u shut the fuck up u armchair economist simpleton.
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#66
Aug 11 2020 11:51am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 11 2020 07:45pm)
Giving poor people countries food doesn't solve things in the long term. That's evident with places like Haiti. Doing that in the long term destroys their ability to feed themselves (as farmers stop growing crops because they can't make money on them). Bad idea, that's why USAID has shifted towards helping those places become self sustainable. But doubt you knew this since you live this in your mid western US existence and don't care about economics.


So your point is that people in the USA should be dying from hunger, because Haiti needs to be motivated to keep having active farmers? Also, what makes you think that, when we say that food should be distributed better, helping countries to produce that food locally is not an option?

You may want to take a moment and try to remember what point you're actually trying to argue.
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#67
Aug 11 2020 11:53am
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 11 2020 07:50pm)
yeah you''re right my decade of working with the boys and girls club to make community gardens to help poor communities become more self reliant has taught me nothing in this arena..... :rolleyes:

you're whole "u grew up in america so u cant possibly understand world politics" schtick is pathetic. i came from the bottom 10% of household incomes, grew up through evictions, ate out of cans my whole life, and had the power go off about 5 times a year growing up. im not a dirt nosed ruskie tho, so i couldnt possibly understand that faux-communism crony politics are bad...

ive literally been on the ground floor of fortune 500 companies putting in factories in mexico, honduras, and guatemala to help provide jobs to fight cartel activity in the area. i was there when they poured the concrete floor and again when they flipped the switch for opening day. so why dont u shut the fuck up u armchair economist simpleton.


But don't forget, ofthevoid himself lived most of his life in scarcity!

... the same scarcity that apparently stopped existing by the time he made his next post. :wacko:

This post was edited by Leevee on Aug 11 2020 11:54am
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#68
Aug 11 2020 12:02pm
Quote (Leevee @ Aug 11 2020 12:53pm)
But don't forget, ofthevoid himself lived most of his life in scarcity!

... the same scarcity that apparently stopped existing by the time he made his next post. :wacko:


Localized scarcity is a terrible thing, just look at the effect that localized scarcity of nutrients has done in his brain from a lifetime of eating expired canned goods in the USSR.
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#69
Aug 11 2020 12:25pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Aug 11 2020 01:50pm)
yeah you''re right my decade of working with the boys and girls club to make community gardens to help poor communities become more self reliant has taught me nothing in this arena..... :rolleyes:

you're whole "u grew up in america so u cant possibly understand world politics" schtick is pathetic. i came from the bottom 10% of household incomes, grew up through evictions, ate out of cans my whole life, and had the power go off about 5 times a year growing up. im not a dirt nosed ruskie tho, so i couldnt possibly understand that faux-communism crony politics are bad...

ive literally been on the ground floor of fortune 500 companies putting in factories in mexico, honduras, and guatemala to help provide jobs to fight cartel activity in the area. i was there when they poured the concrete floor and again when they flipped the switch for opening day. so why dont u shut the fuck up u armchair economist simpleton.


So you've laid the foundations of a sustainable existence for those people by building factories but think scarcity can just be addressed by just giving people the necessities lolok. You going there for a few days doesn't mean you know their hardship or their struggle. Capitalism which highlights individualism and personal responsibility and worth is what's bringing those places up not handouts. It's the same success story in place like Africa with micro financing. An american arguing scarcity doesn't exist in the world is lol worthy, such ignorance.

It's okay, i'll stand for these values both for my kids and yours while you think it's all about me lining my pockets.
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#70
Aug 11 2020 12:32pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Aug 11 2020 01:25pm)
So you've laid the foundations of a sustainable existence for those people by building factories but think scarcity can just be addressed by just giving people the necessities lolok. You going there for a few days doesn't mean you know their hardship or their struggle. Capitalism which highlights individualism and personal responsibility and worth is what's bringing those places up not handouts. It's the same success story in place like Africa with micro financing. An american arguing scarcity doesn't exist in the world is lol worthy, such ignorance.

It's okay, i'll stand for these values both for my kids and yours while you think it's all about me lining my pockets.


I don't necessarily think you're selfish, I just think you've been genuinely duped.

You don't have good heuristics set up to detect bullshit, it's why you bought that evolution isn't science because your math teacher told you, it's why you told me many times that science can't be done outside of a lab, and it's why you think Republicans have an interest in fixing our systems despite never proposing anything that comes within a country mile of fixing them.

You're a smart person, but you've never put the work into actually developing the mental skills necessary to spot obvious bullshit.
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