It's odd. You talk like you hate liberals, yet you talk like a liberal these days..... Not sure you see it, but heyho.

Poor people often also learn to blame all their problems on other people
Like in Black Lives Movement

I think that's part of why they attribute other people's success to luck, connections, etc

This post was edited by FroggyG on Mar 28 2017 06:34pm

Puke.

I don't think my observation has to fall along ideological lines. People absorb their surroundings, which is why kids who grew up in the same town as me, and went to the same school as me, ended up in a different place. It wasn't just income, because I had poor friends growing up who managed to do alright. The parents of my poor friends weren't complete losers. They cared about how their children did in school, even though they didn't make much money.

BTW, who the hell are you rand?

ok, let's define hard work

Let's say there's an unskilled laborer who works in a factory from the day he gets out of high school until he turns 40. Then when he's 40, the factory gets shut down and he finds himself "poor".

Did he fail to work hard?

This post was edited by Kayeto on Mar 28 2017 07:34pm

Preparation + opportunity + the ability to fail gracefully and learn from it.

No he just did the same job for over 2 decades and didn't even work to move up

Also if you combine that hard work with any other factor it basically increases exponentially

This post was edited by FroggyG on Mar 28 2017 07:37pm

That's stupid work. I was going to edit my post, but working hard for years at the restaurant grill isn't working smart. You have to earn a degree and earn the respect of the management. Or you have to create a business.

This post was edited by IceMage on Mar 28 2017 07:43pm

Exactly, that's what I'm talking about when I say we need to define 'hard work'. I take issue with the way things are worded. If the survey had said 'smart work' instead of 'hard work' then I wouldn't really have an issue with their response. What the survey (apparently) means by that phrase is different than what the 2 words (hard work) literally mean.

While we are at it, let's try to define success:

If a kid born in inner city Baltimore with no father and a crack addicted mother manages to move to the midwest and have a career as a used car salesman, then that is a success. But if George W. Bush had ended up with that same career, that would not be a success for him. I think the question needs to define success more clearly before we can talk about what the secret to success may be.

I believe the point is that people give their opinions on how to achieve their own subjective view of success
It's more about attitudes and behavior than quantifying the values

I doubt George Bush would see that as a success and so he would not rate the qualities of how he got there to be strong factors of becoming successful
The other guy has gone up a lot in society and if he worked hard to get to be a used car salesman then he would say that hard work is a strong factor


This post was edited by FroggyG on Mar 28 2017 07:55pm