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Mar 28 2017 08:03pm
Quote (FroggyG @ Mar 28 2017 09:53pm)
I believe the point is that people give their opinions on how to achieve their own subjective view of success
It's more about attitudes and behavior than quantifying the values


Exactly! boom you nailed it. The reason why the rich people are giving a different answer than poor people in that survey is NOT because the poor people are wrong. It's because the different groups are answering different questions.

The rich people (who obviously care more about money) interpret the question as asking "how did i get all my money?" because that is what they consider success to mean. So of course they are going to respond with what they perceive was the reason they got money.

Whereas people who have worked average (or below average) jobs their whole life and ended up with a bunch of debt define success differently. Because having spent their lives doing what they consider hard work clearly did not leave their lives at what they consider a successful state. So their definition of success is "the ability to not have to work hard". Because the strategy of "working hard" failed in their experience.

So ultimately, the survey doesn't have any substance it's mostly just word play. Those words mean different things to the different responders.

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Mar 28 2017 08:47pm
Quote (Kayeto @ Mar 28 2017 08:03pm)
Exactly! boom you nailed it. The reason why the rich people are giving a different answer than poor people in that survey is NOT because the poor people are wrong. It's because the different groups are answering different questions.

The rich people (who obviously care more about money) interpret the question as asking "how did i get all my money?" because that is what they consider success to mean. So of course they are going to respond with what they perceive was the reason they got money.

Whereas people who have worked average (or below average) jobs their whole life and ended up with a bunch of debt define success differently. Because having spent their lives doing what they consider hard work clearly did not leave their lives at what they consider a successful state. So their definition of success is "the ability to not have to work hard". Because the strategy of "working hard" failed in their experience.

So ultimately, the survey doesn't have any substance it's mostly just word play. Those words mean different things to the different responders.


I think you can interpret quite a bit from it
We can deduce that poor people are obviously doing things wrong if success is what they're after
Therefore the things that they are attributing to success are not ideologies that are working

They attributing cheating to success. Poor people commit more crimes that don't actually pay off very well... and are still poor
They attribute success to connections so maybe they don't bother trying since they don't have any... and are still poor
They rate ability/talent low so they don't actually self-reflect on their own capabilities to use them... still poor

Education and hard work are not valued at all but are probably the most important factors for at least reaching middle class (even if you have low rankings on everything else, if you work hard for an education you can make at least middle class)
If they valued these things they could easily have a way more comfortable life.

This post was edited by FroggyG on Mar 28 2017 08:50pm
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Mar 28 2017 09:12pm
Quote (FroggyG @ Mar 28 2017 10:47pm)
I think you can interpret quite a bit from it
We can deduce that poor people are obviously doing things wrong if success is what they're after
Therefore the things that they are attributing to success are not ideologies that are working

They attributing cheating to success. Poor people commit more crimes that don't actually pay off very well... and are still poor
They attribute success to connections so maybe they don't bother trying since they don't have any... and are still poor
They rate ability/talent low so they don't actually self-reflect on their own capabilities to use them... still poor

Education and hard work are not valued at all but are probably the most important factors for at least reaching middle class (even if you have low rankings on everything else, if you work hard for an education you can make at least middle class)
If they valued these things they could easily have a way more comfortable life.


Based on this, it sounds like you are defining success purely as moneymaking (with no other factors)

The question used in the original post does not imply any such correlation. You introduced it based on your personal perception, which may not be shared among all the responders.
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Mar 29 2017 02:05am
Quote (Kayeto @ Mar 28 2017 09:12pm)
Based on this, it sounds like you are defining success purely as moneymaking (with no other factors)

The question used in the original post does not imply any such correlation. You introduced it based on your personal perception, which may not be shared among all the responders.


My last point was more an example
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Mar 29 2017 06:09am
No one becomes a billionaire without cheating along the way, and thats a fact.
Take bill gates for example, he was ruthless, his contractual loopholes are infamous, and he ruthlessly crushed everyone that got in his way.
Now he is some kind of folk hero and everyone ignores all the shitty things he did.
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Mar 29 2017 06:39am
Quote (duffman316 @ Mar 28 2017 03:21pm)
i've learned the secret to success is to lie, cheat and steal :o


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Mar 29 2017 08:59am
I grew up middle class and I definitely would say hard work and education were definitely the main catalysts for my success. I'll certainly admit luck too, but in a way you have to create your own luck. I had a good job after my bachelors paying $35k base and I got bumped to $45k quickly and was tacking on another $20-30k a year in commission. I bailed and took a job at a start-up, which crashed in just 8 months, but I was the director of sales there and it leveraged me to get a super good job at a tech firm. Then that tech firm got bought out by a major public company tech firm, which was definitely luck, and more luck that of the 75% of the staff that got fired, I wasn't one of them. None of it would've happened without my MBA, good sales record, or awesome cover letter that got me the job at that start-up though. Had I not done that and taken the risk, I would still be working at that first place making $45k base/30k and commission, which is definitely still good, but I took the risk and it worked out partially because of hard work/education, also because of luck.

One of the biggest misconceptions I hear about the rich is that connections to family members or rich friends got them to where they are. I know plenty of rich people and only a very tiny percent are the son/daughter of some rich dad or uncle or whatever. It's really rare. In poor communities, connections matter much more in my opinion. If you don't have the education or initial capital to get a degree or have a nice suit for a job interview or have a car for reliable transportation, it's going to be tougher for you. So if you get a good connection, that matters WAY more to a poor person than to someone who grew up wealthy for sure.

Quote (IceMage @ Mar 28 2017 06:58pm)
Self-made rich people have the best attitude hands down. What's the phrase? The harder I work, the luckier I get. I've never met a rich person who inherited it, and every rich person I've met works at least 6 days a week. My wealthy grandfather used to tell people he's retired now so he only works half-days, which meant 12 hours a day.

Even though there's some truth in class warfare rhetoric, I think it's the antithesis of what poor people need to hear. The OP's images just show you how deeply that rhetoric has affected these people.


Yea dude I don't think I've worked less than 50-60 hours a week since like 2009, and I was in college from 2007-2011 for my bachelors and til 2013 for my MBA. I believe the "the harder I work the luckier I get" phrase a lot.
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Mar 29 2017 12:15pm
In importance I'd rank them

1. Initial Capital
2. Hard Work
3. Education
4. Spirit? (assuming this means perseverence and passion)
5. Abilities
6. Connections
7. Cheating
8. Luck (not sure what this means)
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Mar 29 2017 12:18pm
Quote (Voyaging @ 29 Mar 2017 18:15)
In importance I'd rank them

1. Initial Capital
2. Hard Work
3. Education
4. Spirit? (assuming this means perseverence and passion)
5. Abilities
6. Connections
7. Cheating
8. Luck (not sure what this means)


Pretty sure spirit means the grace of god.
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Mar 29 2017 01:32pm
Quote (Kayeto @ 29 Mar 2017 04:12)
Based on this, it sounds like you are defining success purely as moneymaking (with no other factors)

The question used in the original post does not imply any such correlation. You introduced it based on your personal perception, which may not be shared among all the responders.


Our common religion implies that this is the only correlation to what is meant with "succes". It's also the reason to pick 3 wealth classes to asnwer this question and not seperate in education lvl (for instance).


It's 66.6% retarded if you ask me.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Mar 29 2017 01:32pm
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