Quote (Goomshill @ May 5 2024 07:04pm)
Did my needle swing the same direction when I was denouncing this as another stupid counterproductive halfmeasure before the invasion, saying Joe Biden should either avoid the conflict entirely or take a hard line and face off against Putin directly?
If Tucker Carlson does a hit piece on Israel reviving old christian blood libel tropes or whatever he was yammering about, do I dance to his tune?
But take the counterexample: If the third way neocons/neoliberals all agree on some dogmatic decree about foreign policy or macroeconomics, do you ever disagree with them?
The "Ukrainians" are not one people and don't share one desire. Whatever US/Russian involvement, they were clearly on the path to a bitter civil war without any foreign intervention. Ethnic Russians in the east do not share the values or priorities of the pro-Western West. And they don't care to be raped, tortured, murdered, or you know, burned alive in a trade union hall in odessa. And I remain the only true blooded American on PARD simply because I say I don't give a shit about them one way or the other. If this proxy war actually served our interests I'd have no problems with it, the fate of Ukrainian people is for Ukrainian people to worry about. And if the reasons I oppose the Ukraine war land on that Kissinger lodestar, maybe you should be the one asking yourself why you though this dumb war was going to turn out any better for us than Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria or Yemen did. I think I'm just pointing out a fact dancing naked in front of us with flashing neon arrows, and I'm truly baffled by anyone who can't recognize it, especially now at the 11th hour when we're clearly losing.
A "new government", what, is that something from Helldiver's managed democracy?
They overthrew a lawfully elected legitimate representative democracy government in a violent coup d'etat. Insurrectionists stormed the capitol and took power by force.
The people of Ukraine when it was one country held elections for their own self-determination- and they chose Yanukovych. The minority of western Ukraine overthrew that democracy.
I don't think its America's mantle of responsibility to defend the integrity of Ukrainian democracy or else I'd think we'd be obligated to restore Yanukovych to power and give Russia back its sphere of influence. But I also am not blind to our current CIA meddling and pretend we're roleplaying the jingoistic steroid juiced up patriotic messiah storyline that western propaganda is peddling. We helped overthrow a democracy and put an autocratic regime in power, in America we call this Tuesday.
You would think the guy that spent years and spilled more ink than all of us combined talking about how bad an insurrection that never happened was would have some logical consistency. A insurrection that literally had opposition political parties and media banned, that had opposition members burned and gunned down as they try to flee, and so on, he legitimately regards as a normal democratic outcome of the will of the people. Clown world.
I wasn't around during the cold war, but I feel like then there at least was some honesty. We opposed governments, we deposed governments (many of which were representative of their locals will) just because they were reds. There weren't these contrived logical knots. I mean this it textbook color revolution circa 1950s.
This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 6 2024 06:39am