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Jun 4 2023 06:27am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jun 4 2023 12:41pm)
Ukraine realistically is a country with sub 30 million people at this point. Large swaths of its male population have already been mobilized. I live in the US and in my city I’ve met a fair amount of Ukrainian refugees both male and female.

I don’t really know how much the ‘well’ has left to give. This war is absolutely crippling Ukraine, the longer it goes the worst their prospects are of being a functioning independent state. They were already the poorest country in Europe prior to the war, even if they recover the Donbas , they are going to be extremely damaged, in debted, with a much smaller population.

To give you a personal example, my wife’s cousin has a 14 year old son and she lives in western Ukraine. Her husband is already in Holland and has been working there for a few years. They are now planning for their son to leave the country because they’re scared he’ll get drafted. This is the reality and the things I’d say hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians are considering.

And to what end? Idk taking this to its logical outcome ultimately fighting was objectively worse for them.


The alternative is?
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Jun 4 2023 06:30am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 4 Jun 2023 15:27)
The alternative is?


Fight 'till the end?
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Jun 4 2023 06:34am
Quote (Norlander @ Jun 4 2023 01:30pm)
Fight 'till the end?


Nono, what is the alternative to fighting at all?

I assume the answer would be negotiate.

Then I just want to hear you guys argue how negotiating the annihilation of your nation is a good alternative.



This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jun 4 2023 06:35am
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Jun 4 2023 06:36am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 4 2023 08:34am)
Nono, what is the alternative to fighting at all?


Peace and status quo
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Jun 4 2023 06:38am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jun 4 2023 01:36pm)
Peace and status quo


Define status quo.

As I recall Russia has claimed several regions of Ukraine as part of the RF; Some parts they don't even control at all I might add.

Also define peace in this instance. Do you actually believe any ceasefire will be the end of this conflict? Thats not living in the real world man.
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Jun 4 2023 06:38am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 4 Jun 2023 15:34)
Nono, what is the alternative to fighting at all?


Regime change for both Ukraine and Russia, emprisonment of war criminals, some propaganda shit on top, Christmas Truce style.
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Jun 4 2023 06:41am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jun 4 2023 01:36pm)
Peace and status quo


your about to be proximitied.
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Jun 4 2023 06:42am
Quote (Norlander @ Jun 4 2023 01:38pm)
Regime change for both Ukraine and Russia, emprisonment of war criminals, some propaganda shit on top, Christmas Truce style.


Get to work then. Only Russians gonna regime change Russia.

Quote (ferdia @ Jun 4 2023 01:41pm)
your about to be proximitied.


Personal attack much?

Plug another youtube channel while your at it.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jun 4 2023 06:42am
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Jun 4 2023 06:44am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Jun 4 2023 08:38am)
Define status quo.

As I recall Russia has claimed several regions of Ukraine as part of the RF; Some parts they don't even control at all I might add.

Also define peace in this instance. Do you actually believe any ceasefire will be the end of this conflict? Thats not living in the real world man.


The status quo I’m talking about is long gone, destroyed by supporting a coup by ultra nationalists because it suited our western goals to de-Russify and turn Ukraine to the west. Further supported by rejecting the Minsk agreements.

It’s sad it got to this point though when it never had to.

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Jun 4 2023 06:49am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Jun 4 2023 01:44pm)
The status quo I’m talking about is long gone, destroyed by supporting a coup by ultra nationalists because it suited our western goals to de-Russify and turn Ukraine to the west. Further supported by rejecting the Minsk agreements.

It’s sad it got to this point though when it never had to.


So, your criticizing the approach without providing a realistic alternative.

Your understanding of how this war started is skewed; Proven by the resistance of Ukrainians to the invasion.
If it was only the US that wished Ukraine to turn towards the west. Russia's invasion would have been welcomed by a majority of Ukrainians, right?

It was inevitable Putin would invade Ukraine. The response to annexation of Crimea was a huge blunder by the Obama administration and EU leaders were essentially cuckold to Russian gas. This emboldened Russia. And as I've said before there is blood on Merkel's hands. A further example of how appeasement does not work.

Europe had a peace dividend after 1991, but it made several nations naive. If you want peace, prepare for war.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jun 4 2023 06:51am
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