d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Common-good Capitalism > Warning: Long Read
Prev1234Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 33,514
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,617.52
Nov 23 2019 11:57am
Quote (Surfpunk @ Nov 23 2019 12:10pm)
They do though, if you consider stock price as a guide for many corporate decisions. A lot of companies dictate their market positions/decisions based on the ROI to shareholders. It's bad policy, but it exists.


Japan is much better in this regard. They have a sense of responsibility in business decisions.
Member
Posts: 64,656
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 260.11
Nov 23 2019 12:06pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 23 2019 11:57am)
Japan is much better in this regard. They have a sense of responsibility in business decisions.


They also tend to work at the same company their whole lives, tend to save instead of invest, etc. The whole culture is one of stability whereas western culture is one of risk.
Member
Posts: 57,901
Joined: Dec 3 2008
Gold: 285.00
Nov 23 2019 01:21pm
Quote (Surfpunk @ Nov 23 2019 12:06pm)
"May actually be"? He's in the 1% now, and has been since he inherited daddy's money. Trump is 0.1%-tier, with regard to wealth.


Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows his ledger, and he's bankrupted so many companies that American business will not work with or loan to him and he has to borrow from the slum lords of the third world. I bet he got a lot of daddy's money, and I bet he has squandered more. People who inherit the money are never as good with it as the people who actually built the fortune in the first place.

He is hiding his tax information to protect his image as a businessman.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 23 2019 01:21pm
Member
Posts: 77,542
Joined: Nov 30 2008
Gold: 500.00
Nov 23 2019 02:37pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 23 2019 12:57pm)
Japan is much better in this regard. They have a sense of responsibility in business decisions.


Asian work culture is quite shitty towards employees as a whole however
Member
Posts: 33,860
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Gold: 633.87
Nov 23 2019 03:00pm
Quote (IceMage @ Nov 23 2019 10:30am)
inb4 tldr



I'm interested in how Cambo, Goom, Snipa, and others view this argument. The supposed Republican orthodoxy of free markets and personal responsibility has definitely shifted since Trump came onto the scene.

I basically agree with David French on most of this. I'm suspicious of populism in general, because I view it as an irrational reaction to the harmful effects of either good policy or inevitable forces(free trade agreements, globalization, automation, etc). I've also always agreed that personal responsibility is an important thing to focus on, even though politically it's dead in the water. Also, David provides counter-arguments to the idea that Washington has supposedly been full of market-worshiping libertarians.

Thoughts, PaRD?


The Republican party has always been about business, not free market libertarianism. There is another party for that, and it has never been all that successful.

Tariffs are an economic tool, to the extent that they disrupt economic activity, they're bad. To the extent that they protect domestic markets from unfair trade practices, they can be good. French is an absolutist, the free market is always good, therefore tariffs must be bad, irrespective of the fact that they've only been implemented to correct for government sponsored intervention in China and elsewhere.

French thinks Hawley's internet proposal is a government power grab, but the current situation, where a handful of providers dictate content, is hardly better. We've already seen what happens when alternative platforms attempt to disrupt the status quo (e.g. Gab). The dominant oligopolies shut them down. When a market is naturally predisposed towards either monopoly or oligopoly, there is no free market.

It's one thing to talk about dispensing with convenient political fictions, but if we're to pretend that the value of a blue collar hasn't changed, we're embracing one fiction instead of another. This hunky dory, "everything is fine!" belies the reality of the American lower and middle class.
Member
Posts: 33,860
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Gold: 633.87
Nov 23 2019 03:03pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 23 2019 01:06pm)
They also tend to work at the same company their whole lives, tend to save instead of invest, etc. The whole culture is one of stability whereas western culture is one of risk.


Quote (EndlessSky @ Nov 23 2019 12:57pm)
Japan is much better in this regard. They have a sense of responsibility in business decisions.


That Japan is dying. Part time work is rising, the company jobs are harder to find. Japan's economy has struggled to emerge from the lost decade(s) that followed the bubble burst in the late 80s.
Member
Posts: 53,139
Joined: Sep 2 2004
Gold: 57.00
Nov 23 2019 04:23pm
Quote (Skinned @ 23 Nov 2019 14:21)
Maybe, maybe not. Nobody knows his ledger, and he's bankrupted so many companies that American business will not work with or loan to him and he has to borrow from the slum lords of the third world. I bet he got a lot of daddy's money, and I bet he has squandered more. People who inherit the money are never as good with it as the people who actually built the fortune in the first place.

He is hiding his tax information to protect his image as a businessman.

imagine accusing someone of being this incompetent, then voting for someone who loses to said “incompetent” person in a landslide. and then blaming said “incompetent” person on masterminding the ‘hacking of the election’ as the reason for the election result

:rofl:
Member
Posts: 20,223
Joined: Apr 30 2008
Gold: 5,169.82
Nov 23 2019 06:49pm
Sounds like a great step in the right direction.
Member
Posts: 61,380
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 10.77
Nov 23 2019 07:12pm
This is all orthodox Marxist prediction.
Member
Posts: 48,563
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 5,016.77
Nov 24 2019 10:59am
Quote (bogie160 @ Nov 23 2019 04:00pm)
The Republican party has always been about business, not free market libertarianism. There is another party for that, and it has never been all that successful.

Tariffs are an economic tool, to the extent that they disrupt economic activity, they're bad. To the extent that they protect domestic markets from unfair trade practices, they can be good. French is an absolutist, the free market is always good, therefore tariffs must be bad, irrespective of the fact that they've only been implemented to correct for government sponsored intervention in China and elsewhere.


I suppose so. Republicans deploy the rhetoric of free markets, but in practice they're closer to corporatists.

You're creating a distinction where there isn't one. Any tariff is a tax on economic activity. You can argue it's a good or bad tariff based on whatever goals you think you are going to accomplish, but either way it's disrupting economic activity.

French isn't saying the free market is always good, just that it's better than the alternative. He doesn't have as much faith in technocrats in Washington as others do.

Quote
French thinks Hawley's internet proposal is a government power grab, but the current situation, where a handful of providers dictate content, is hardly better. We've already seen what happens when alternative platforms attempt to disrupt the status quo (e.g. Gab). The dominant oligopolies shut them down. When a market is naturally predisposed towards either monopoly or oligopoly, there is no free market.

It's one thing to talk about dispensing with convenient political fictions, but if we're to pretend that the value of a blue collar hasn't changed, we're embracing one fiction instead of another. This hunky dory, "everything is fine!" belies the reality of the American lower and middle class.


I don't care that much about social media regulation, but Hawley's regulation was full of weird paternalistic nonsense aimed at making these applications less appealing, and therefore, less addictive. I don't want the state telling Twitter how to make their application less convenient.

The last line is a strawman.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1234Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll