Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 18 2018 08:35pm)

but wouldnt such a vote of no confidence in May immediately trigger an intraparty civil war among the notirously cutthroat tories? I can totally see how this would help Corbyn politically in a subsequent general election, which would probably be inevitable in this scenario, sooner rather than later.
but I dont see how all of this would create progress on the brexit issue.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 18 2018 08:35pm)

but wouldnt such a vote of no confidence in May immediately trigger an intraparty civil war among the notirously cutthroat tories? I can totally see how this would help Corbyn politically in a subsequent general election, which would probably be inevitable in this scenario, sooner rather than later.
but I dont see how all of this would create progress on the brexit issue.

Quote (ampoo @ 18 Dec 2018 18:56)

yeah, thats the worst part
people wont even get quick cash, unfortunately this new "law" makes it clear that orban also is a corporate puppet

and he is still right on migration



that campaign against poland is beyond ridiculous, if we apply these standards to other countries they would have to change things as well and germany is one of them

our highest judges are handpicked by the ruling parties behind closed doors and are by no means independent

the next president of the federal court harbarth is a long term merkel minion, deputy chief of the CDU in parliament and makes 250k+ a year on a side job representing big corporations
can we really expect a guy like that to be independent? certainly not

http://www.spiegel.de/politik/deutschland/verfassungsgericht-stephan-harbarth-soll-gerichtspraesident-werden-a-1237720.html

as a matter of fact i am happy that poland has to scrap the reform, but why is the EU only bashing poland? because they dare to speak against mass migration?
by all rights our country should be in their sights as well, but i dont expect the ridiculous EU courts to apply equal standards for everyone

they have lost all credibility by declaring that the illegal state financing of the european central bank is legal all of a sudden
yeah right, because buying government bonds isnt financing a state at all
just how stupid do they think people are

https://www.tagesschau.de/wirtschaft/ezb-eugh-staatsanleihen-101.html

so before we shit on others, we should do our own homework and make our courts independent, which this leftist government clearly does not plan to do

but hey, nice try to make it sound like exploiting working people and failed legal reforms are something only evil right wingers are doing

Quote (dro94 @ 18 Dec 2018 20:40)

No I don't think it would. The ERG have already come out in support of May by pledging to vote down Labour's motion, as well as the DUP. The futility of May passing the deal, postponement of the vote and government making statements about preparing for a no deal scenario plays right into backbencher's hands. If they assist labour in getting rid of May and forcing a general election they risk losing their seats and government to a Labour party that could conceivably reverse Brexit. Is the risk worth the reward?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Dec 18 2018 10:14pm)

Makes sense.

It's all a gigantic mess, and if you ask me, it wont be resolved until it's too late. Everyone should prepare for a hard brexit.

Quote (dro94 @ Dec 18 2018 05:29pm)

The situation is so dire I'm warming to the idea of a 2nd referendum to reverse the whole thing. I've never been comfortable with how democratic that is, but people didn't vote to leave for no deal. It was promised as the easiest deal in history and a lot is at stake now.

There is a certain irony of poor people overwhelmingly voting to leave and lower their living standards that I always interpreted as righteous justice in its most natural form. But as Clint Eastwood famously said in Unforgiven, deserve's got nothin to do with it.

Quote (fender @ 18 Dec 2018 22:03)

because it's an obvious power grab, a blatant attempt to get rid of independent judges and undermine the judiciary. the fact that i have to explain such obvious things while you're making flawed analogies, false equivalences, and lazy whataboutisms just further illustrates how uninformed yet protective of authoritarian right wing governments you are. typical brownshirt mentality really...

Quote (dro94 @ 18 Dec 2018 22:29)

The situation is so dire I'm warming to the idea of a 2nd referendum to reverse the whole thing. I've never been comfortable with how democratic that is, but people didn't vote to leave for no deal. It was promised as the easiest deal in history and a lot is at stake now.

There is a certain irony of poor people overwhelmingly voting to leave and lower their living standards that I always interpreted as righteous justice in its most natural form. But as Clint Eastwood famously said in Unforgiven, deserve's got nothin to do with it.

Quote (ampoo @ Dec 19 2018 12:00am)

a second referendum and democracy in the UK is literally dead
voting until it fits, because of pathetic and incompetent politicians, it cant get any worse

Quote (dro94 @ 19 Dec 2018 00:17)

Well, you have to ask yourself the question of whether this situation is down to pathetic and incompetent politicians or broken promises of what was realistically negotiable.

It can't be denied that the current options and outlook is significantly worse than the one that was promised - both before the referendum and up to the deal's announcement. Giving people a vote on the final options, which could be a no deal brexit for all we know, may be the only way to salvage something.

Quote (ampoo @ Dec 18 2018 11:34pm)

of course its both, no doubt about it
perhaps i wasnt precise enough, i support your idea of a vote to choose an option, but i think that the first "leave" vote needs to stand

the only problem is, that the result of such a vote is pretty obvious, the people will certainly vote for the deal with the EU instead of uncertainty and for good reason

and lets be honest, by all objective criteria remaining in the EU is better than the deal may presented
thats when we are at the start again, this whole situation has become a circle

i dont have an idea whats the right call to make now, the worst problem is that may has destroyed the foundation for any future negotiations
the EU guys know that they have britain in their pockets and they would be stupid to even move an inch now

there should have been much tougher negotiations, but that train has left the station