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May 13 2021 08:47am
Quote (bogie160 @ May 13 2021 09:30am)
Source required. We are specifically talking about reference to a "deep state", not vague accusations that Hillary or her campaign are "cheating".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep_state_in_the_United_States#2017

The first reference I can find is from 2017.


You're asking me to treat Trump as though he's a scientist, regularly and consistently keeping terminology. It makes it hard to believe you're approaching this in good faith. He claimed a massive internal government conspiracy against him in the election and later "deep state" became a placeholder for just that.
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May 13 2021 08:58am
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 13 2021 09:47am)
You're asking me to treat Trump as though he's a scientist, regularly and consistently keeping terminology. It makes it hard to believe you're approaching this in good faith. He claimed a massive internal government conspiracy against him in the election and later "deep state" became a placeholder for just that.


Yeah, Trump was railing about fraud in an election HE WON, all because he didn't win the popular vote.
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May 13 2021 09:38am
Quote (Thor123422 @ May 13 2021 10:47am)
You're asking me to treat Trump as though he's a scientist, regularly and consistently keeping terminology. It makes it hard to believe you're approaching this in good faith. He claimed a massive internal government conspiracy against him in the election and later "deep state" became a placeholder for just that.


Use of "Deep state" has been geared towards the FBI and other intelligence services which Trump and others claimed were undermining his presidency. It became very popular during the Mueller investigation. That is in line with how the phrase has traditionally been used before Trump, i.e. to refer to an entrenched bureaucracy that subverts proper state authority in pursuit of its own agenda.

As I read Black's point, he's questioning why people so readily believe (often conspiratorial) allegations about the military industrial complex, but refuse to believe that those situations can develop in other, similar settings. Trump's allegations as to the extent of forces supposedly arrayed against him is almost certainly not true, just as allegations that the MIC actively precipitated the Iraq war is not true. But all that proves is that extreme, simplistic takes are normally incorrect. It does not mean that the military industrial complex lacks power, or that the intelligence services are not manipulating and shaping narratives behind the scene.
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May 13 2021 11:40am
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May 13 2021 11:41am
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May 13 2021 11:57am
Quote (EndlessSky @ 13 May 2021 19:40)


This recent flare up in the Middle East has nothing to do with Trump or Biden. It's the perverse, symbiotic relationship between the Hamas and Netanyahu.

The Hamas had to come up with a reason to postpone the first elections in Gaza since 2005, which they would have lost, so new tensions and conflict with Israel are to their advantage. Similarly, Netanyahu has once again failed to win a majority (after the 4th election in Israel in less than 2 years ended with yet another deadlocked parliament) while the anti-corruption investigations are circling in on him, so going back to his old playbook and portraying himself as the tough-on-crimepalestine leader seems like a last ditch effort to secure a majority after the next election (which is only weeks or a couple of months away).
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May 13 2021 12:02pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 13 2021 01:57pm)
This recent flare up in the Middle East has nothing to do with Trump or Biden. It's the perverse, symbiotic relationship between the Hamas and Netanyahu.

The Hamas had to come up with a reason to postpone the first elections in Gaza since 2005, which they would have lost, so new tensions and conflict with Israel are to their advantage. Similarly, Netanyahu has once again failed to win a majority (after the 4th election in Israel in less than 2 years ended with yet another deadlocked parliament) while the anti-corruption investigations are circling in on him, so going back to his old playbook and portraying himself as the tough-on-crimepalestine leader seems like a last ditch effort to secure a majority after the next election (which is only weeks or a couple of months away).


Natanyahu is going to be the next PM. Its only a matter of time before the crybaby "independents" cave.

This post was edited by EndlessSky on May 13 2021 12:03pm
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May 13 2021 01:28pm


This post was edited by EndlessSky on May 13 2021 01:29pm
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May 13 2021 01:45pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 13 2021 02:28pm)


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May 13 2021 01:51pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ May 13 2021 03:28pm)


Remind me what was so bad about jimmy carter
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