Hi all

Before you continue to read, some of these topics maybe controversial to alot of you so please try and keep a sane mind.

Alright LLD bros lets get right to it, for a long time now 1v1s or what ever variation of TvT there's always been a unspoken dilemma. The issue of unbalance/unfair duel(s), the majority of time this will only apply to TvT as 1v1 can operate differently in their own formats. D2R has Updates and Patches, maybe we should apply our own being that this version of the game isn't supported in the same way.

Blessed Hammer
Required Level: 18*
Prerequisites: Holy Bolt [6]

Effect: A summoned Hammer spirals outward, damaging enemies. The Undead take additional damage.

% Mana and Life Steal bonuses from items and weapons do not apply to Blessed Hammer.
Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Mana Cost 5 5.2 5.5 5.7 6 6.2 6.5 6.7 7 7.2 7.5 7.7 8 8.2 8.5 8.7 9 9.2 9.5 9.7
Damage 12-16 20-24 28-32 36-40 44-48 52-56 60-64 68-72 78-82 88-92 98-102 108-112 118-122 128-132 138-142 148-152 160-164 172-176 184-188 196-200
150% Damage To Undead

Blessed Hammer Receives Bonuses From:
Blessed Aim: +14% Magic Damage Per Level
Vigor: +14% Magic Damage Per Level
Also receives bonuses from Concentration

There isnt much to say here, Blessed Hammer is op and was never properly adjusted since that patch never saw the day of light. For pvp the skill its self is unrivaled for what it does, being it has no good way to resist it unlike its elemental cousins and posion which all have a balance way to deal with. Blessed Hammer is also a very easy skill to manage and naturally different ideas were created into lld to use/abuse the skill. Play style could be argued in some sense to were you could consider a level of skill to pilot it effectively. However the issue remains, the skill for what it does it unbalance for a pvp stage. This isn't some thing all of you can act to ignore or pretend its not an issue, Blessed Hammer isnt some savior or means to an end in pvp, its simply just a unbalance skill many have abused because no one has actually said or done any thing about it...until now...?

; Nerf Damage cap, ban specific combinations of char team ups, not allowed in TvT 2s

Fireball
Required Level: 12*
Prerequisites: Fire Bolt [1]

Effect: Creates a ball of fire that explodes on impact.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Mana Cost 5 5.5 6 6.5 7 7.5 8 8.5 9 9.5 10 10.5 11 11.5 12 12.5 13 13.5 14 14.5
Damage 6-15 14-24 21-33 29-41 36-50 43-58 51-67 58-75 71-90 84-104 98-118 111-132 124-147 137-161 150-175 163-189 179-206 195-224 211-241 227-258
Radius (yards): 1

Fire Ball Receives Bonuses From
Fire Bolt: +14% Fire Damage Per Level
Meteor: +14% Fire Damage Per Level

Fireball, we all have a hate and love relationship with this skill, but it was also never properly patched. Now most chars in lld will have a draw back to some degree but there are a few builds with skills that just make up for them, Fireball Sorc is one of them. Much like Blessed Hammer, Fireball has a low lv to unlock allowing for mass focus into it. Its huge damage out put and combination with a free teleport have proven time over time to be game shattering in TvT and can only be met with equal or high power creep chars which eventually ends up in 2-3 chars being the majority of the TvT, at that point its not fun for everyone and probably another reason people just afk.

; Nerf Damage cap, ban specific combinations of char team ups, not allowed in TvT 2s

Fire Wall
Casting Delay: 1.4 Seconds
Required Level: 18*
Prerequisites: Inferno [6], Blaze [12]

Effect: Creates a wall of fire.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Mana Cost 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41
Damage per Second 70-94 113-137 156-179 198-222 241-264 283-307 323-346 369-392 435-459 501-525 568-591 634-658 700-724 766-790 833-856 899-923 998-1022 1098-1121 1197-1221 1296-1320
Radius (yards) 4 6 7 8 10 11 12 14 15 16 18 19 20 22 23 24 26 27 28 30
Duration: 3.6 Seconds

Fire Wall Receives Bonuses From:
Warmth: +4% Fire Damage Per Level
Inferno: +1% Fire Damage Per Level

Sorry Fire Wall, but not sorry. Another skill that has crazy damage out put and little skill required, combo this with a free teleport and you'll just promote cringe duels and long tvts. Great Skill but just on papper, in reality its just a trol skill.

; Nerf Damage cap, ban specific combinations of chars team ups, not allowed in TvT 2s or 3s

Teleport
Required Level: 18*
Prerequisites: Telekinesis [6]

Effect: Instantly transports you between two points.

Level 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
Mana Cost 24 23 22 21 20 19 18 17 16 15 14 13 12 11 10 9 8 7 6 5

Yeap, we have to talk about it. Teleport for Sorc is free and over all its a harmless skill, however in combo with some other skills it can prove to be overwhelming. For Sorc the teleport skill is only as devastating as its combinations into other skills, which can be an issue.

I hope our LLD community can come together and reach terms to form an idea we can deal with these small issues, as for me ...the more I see these issues the less ill be active to experience them, and if you think it's just me then ignore this entire thread and continue your LLD duels.

This is just my attempt into gearing TvT duels or 1v1s towards a more diverse and fun scene.

I think ww barb is more op than hammerdin for sure.

Only op builds are es fire builds and to a lesser extent ww barb

I disagree, there already exists nerfs to ww and it's also a much harder class to pilot at a effective level unlike blessed hammer

Edit; honestly Blessed hammer is way more op then WW will ever be

This post was edited by danzeva on Dec 21 2023 12:03pm

While hammers can be annoying its fine the way they are, they dont need a nerf

Ban all es fire from serious duels is fine tbh

Tons of things, maybe majority of things have advantage vs hammerdin. Almost nothing has advantage vs ww

Let me put it this way, WW barbs can easily opt into shield or non shield ; this opens windows of opportunity in tvt, it is much more difficult to gear a fully built WW barb to the level you're implying compared to let's say a regular hdin. I haven't even mentioned concretion into the mix. Only negative I see is some people crying they can't play their easy mode char



Bruh, we've already talked about this... they're way more then annoying

This post was edited by danzeva on Dec 21 2023 12:56pm

Here is a list of chars that should have a reasonable advantage vs ww barb: es sorc, hammerdin (but barb has a great chance here too!)

Here is a list of chars with a reasonable advantage vs hammerdin: es sorc, trapper, bow zon, hyb zon, poison zon, necro, windy (with cube staff)

This is why I would say ww barb is more op. However, obviously I can agree that aura ga or aura ww is too op unless both sides have it

Anywho, nothing needs to be changed at all. There haven’t been any problems with fairness in like many years. If the teams are imbalanced to the point that someone is crying about it, just repick teams rq

its interesting from a d2r point of view to read this, because without synch... winning any duel with an hdin, or even a libby, is genuinely impressive

Woah bro , hold your horses. It's cool to make sense but don't go as far as saying nothing is wrong. And half the list you mentioned is one char on different variants which loses out to Libby aka hdin variant. I won't cherry pick the advantages because the reality is blessed hammer is op and can easily deal with the majority of chars in lld.

There have been problems with fairness and unbalances with in the last 3 years (not trying to say you're a lier just clearing up some facts), few people being ok with a problem doesn't fix the problem...

This post was edited by danzeva on Dec 21 2023 01:45pm

I haven’t heard anyone have any problems with anything tbh except haseo with es fire sorc and you with hammerdin 🤷‍♂️ but I believe the reasons for those problems is because you only play smite variant dins, which is why hdins naturally pose a huge problem for you, and haseo primarily plays nec/bow, so es sorc poses a huge threat to his main chars likewise. Limiting chars makes duels boring. It’s nice to have a variety and some things being more op than others is a pretty normal thing in games and in life. Please mention anyone else who has been vocal about wanting changes to lld rules in the last 5 years? I can only think of you and haseo


E/ there shouldn’t be a bias against char builds, just against playstyles. Obviously a hammerdin who runs around medi repping or an es sorc who teles to cold plains after every engagement is op and lame. But that’s a problem with the player, not the build

This post was edited by Belarathon on Dec 21 2023 01:55pm