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Feb 9 2019 05:31pm
Quote (izParagonzi @ Feb 8 2019 09:35pm)
Continuation @ level 40:

Paladin [Base strength 55 / dexterity 30]
Longsword (Level 35) / Stat Change
Explore
Salvation
0 crit strike
6% armor pierce
1% powershot


Lvl 40.62 - 41.47 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 06/100 Crit rate: 06% - 3/020___1/020___0/020___2/020___0/020 (TD)
Lvl 41.47 - 42.24 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 03/100 Crit rate: 03% - 1/020___1/020___0/020___1/020___0/020
Lvl 42.24 - 42.97 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 04/100 Crit rate: 04% - 1/020___0/020___2/020___0/020___1/020
Lvl 42.97 - 43.69 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 06/100 Crit rate: 06% - 1/020___3/020___0/020___1/020___1/020
Lvl 43.69 - 44.45 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 12/100 Crit rate: 12% - 0/020___2/020___2/020___3/020___5/020
Lvl 44.45 - 44.92 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 12/100 Crit rate: 12% - 4/020___4/020___2/020___2/020___0/020 [Welled 4 items]
Lvl 44.92 - 45.58 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 1/020___2/020___0/020___1/020___3/020

Lvl 45.58 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 1/20___0/020___*1/020___3/020___2/020 * Sneaky
Lvl 45.87 - 46.66 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 05/100 Crit rate: 05% - 1/020___0/020___2/020___1/020___1/020
Lvl 46.66 - 47.29 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 08/100 Crit rate: 08% - 1/020___2/020___3/020___1/020___1/020
Lvl 47.29 - 47.94 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 0/020___2/020___4/020___1/020___0/020
Lvl 47.94 - 48.54 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 08/100 Crit rate: 08% - 2/020___3/020___1/020___2/020___0/020
Lvl 48.54 - 49.15 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 03/100 Crit rate: 03% - 0/020___1/020___0/020___0/020___0/020
Lvl 49.15 - 49.78 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 03/100 Crit rate: 03% - 0/020___0/020___1/020___2/020___0/020
Lvl 49.78 - 50.28 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 05/100 Crit rate: 05% - 1/020___0/020___2/020___1/020___1/020


Tests Done Versus Soften the Sneaky Shell:

Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 14/100 Crit rate: 14% - 1/020___1/020___7/020___2/020___3/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 11/100 Crit rate: 11% - 3/020___1/020___0/020___3/020___4/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 06/100 Crit rate: 06% - 0/020___1/020___2/020___2/020___1/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 12/100 Crit rate: 12% - 2/020___2/020___4/020___3/020___1/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 2/020___3/020___0/020___1/020___1/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 08/100 Crit rate: 08% - 1/020___2/020___1/020___2/020___2/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 0/020___1/020___2/020___2/020___2/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 11/100 Crit rate: 11% - 4/020___2/020___2/020___2/020___1/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 0/020___2/020___0/020___2/020___3/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 04/100 Crit rate: 04% - 1/020___1/020___0/020___2/020___0/020

Reduced Strength

Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 55 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 07/100 Crit rate: 07% - 1/020___0/020___3/020___3/020___0/020
Lvl 45.87 - 45.87 Str 55 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 08/100 Crit rate: 08% - 1/020___3/020___3/020___1/020___0/020
Didn't look like I would gather much information here, even though dexterity to strength ratio is higher, it doesn't increase Critical Hit chance.
Killed Sneaky:

Damn... sword / long-swords seem to have a hard time critical hitting, I personally would like to find a good ratio to keep a constant 10% Critical Hit chance and damage. I will check to see if I have the gear to go 50/50 ratio... this might be a factor, since Axes & Battle-axes seem to use a 75/25 ratio... that is just my thoughts.

Lvl 00.00 - 00.00 Str 102 Dex 32 Crits/Hits: 00/000 Crit rate: 00% - 0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000
_____________________________




Does this mean the game designer is not academically minded? Game logic comes from the creator, not the game.


Just so that we are clear about why we are testing hypotheses... what makes you think that the ratio of str-to-dex is important at all? My current hypothesis for axes is that only total str+dex matters and both are adding a little (so idk where the 75/25 ratio is coming from...)

For sword/longsword it is my current hypothesis that the total dex number is important (and str doesn't do anything to crit). I don't mean the ratio--I mean just the dex value ignoring the str. Do you have a reason to suspect otherwise?

This post was edited by BWConformity on Feb 9 2019 05:32pm
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Gold: 20,826.51
Feb 9 2019 06:24pm
Quote (BWConformity @ Feb 10 2019 12:31pm)
Just so that we are clear about why we are testing hypotheses... what makes you think that the ratio of str-to-dex is important at all? My current hypothesis for axes is that only total str+dex matters and both are adding a little (so idk where the 75/25 ratio is coming from...)

For sword/longsword it is my current hypothesis that the total dex number is important (and str doesn't do anything to crit). I don't mean the ratio--I mean just the dex value ignoring the str. Do you have a reason to suspect otherwise?


Just my theory based on my last battle axe test where my strength ranged from 90-114 and my dex 30--34 and the Critical Hit chance majority was 10%+ It does NOT however differentiate from your hypothesis at all, it still needs to be tested two(2) more times.

1. Reverse the stat ratio making Dexterity higher. Again, both hypothesis remains.
2. Going 50/50 stat ratio. This may give more answers, BUT, if the Total Stat value is the same and showing same % chance, it may open up other factors.

Note: this is not using Critical Strike equipment, but, if this is a factor, we can also use Critical Strike gear with same stat variation to see how much it increases Critical Hit chance.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Feb 9 2019 06:25pm
Member
Posts: 40,183
Joined: Apr 29 2006
Gold: 20,826.51
Feb 11 2019 06:00am
Final test with Battle Axe to verify BWComformity hypothesis that more Strength increases Critical Hit chance.
This does mean less defense / less healing capacity.

Paladin [Base strength 55 / dexterity 30]
Battle Axe (Level 35) / Stat Change
Explore
Salvation
0 crit strike
0% armor pierce
0% powershot


Lvl 55.14 - 55.74 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 13/100 Crit rate: 13% - 2/020___0/020___5/020___4/020___2/020
Lvl 55.74 - 56.36 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 13/100 Crit rate: 13% - 3/020___4/020___1/020___4/020___1/020
Lvl 56.36 - 56.83 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 10/100 Crit rate: 10% - 1/020___1/020___4/020___1/020___3/020
Lvl 56.83 - 57.36 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 10/100 Crit rate: 10% - 3/020___1/020___1/020___3/020___2/020
Lvl 57.36 - 57.94 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 17/100 Crit rate: 17% - 3/020___2/020___3/020___4/020___5/020
Lvl 57.94 - 58.46 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 14/100 Crit rate: 14% - 4/020___5/020___1/020___1/020___3/020
Lvl 58.46 - 58.91 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 2/020___4/020___4/020___2/020___4/020
Lvl 58.91 - 59.60 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 3/020___3/020___2/020___3/020___5/020
Lvl 59.60 - 60.14 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 11/100 Crit rate: 11% - 2/020___3/020___4/020___1/020___1/020

Lvl 00.00 - 00.00 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 00/000 Crit rate: 00% - 0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000

Roughly 14% so far.
Member
Posts: 40,183
Joined: Apr 29 2006
Gold: 20,826.51
Feb 11 2019 06:25pm
Final test with Battle Axe to verify BWComformity hypothesis that more Strength increases Critical Hit chance.
This does mean less defense / less healing capacity.

Paladin [Base strength 55 / dexterity 30]
Battle Axe (Level 35) / Stat Change
Explore
Salvation
0 crit strike
0% armor pierce
0% powershot


Lvl 55.14 - 55.74 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 13/100 Crit rate: 13% - 2/020___0/020___5/020___4/020___2/020
Lvl 55.74 - 56.36 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 13/100 Crit rate: 13% - 3/020___4/020___1/020___4/020___1/020
Lvl 56.36 - 56.83 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 10/100 Crit rate: 10% - 1/020___1/020___4/020___1/020___3/020
Lvl 56.83 - 57.36 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 10/100 Crit rate: 10% - 3/020___1/020___1/020___3/020___2/020
Lvl 57.36 - 57.94 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 17/100 Crit rate: 17% - 3/020___2/020___3/020___4/020___5/020
Lvl 57.94 - 58.46 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 14/100 Crit rate: 14% - 4/020___5/020___1/020___1/020___3/020
Lvl 58.46 - 58.91 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 2/020___4/020___4/020___2/020___4/020
Lvl 58.91 - 59.60 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 3/020___3/020___2/020___3/020___5/020
Lvl 59.60 - 60.14 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 11/100 Crit rate: 11% - 2/020___3/020___4/020___1/020___1/020
Roughly 14% so far.

Lvl 60.14 - 60.66 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 1/020___3/020___3/020___6/020___3/020
Lvl 60.66 - 61.10 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 18/100 Crit rate: 18% - 2/020___3/020___8/020___2/020___3/020
Lvl 61.10 - 61.53 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 17/100 Crit rate: 17% - 2/020___6/020___3/020___4/020___2/020
Lvl 61.53 - 62.04 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 11/100 Crit rate: 11% - 3/020___1/020___2/020___2/020___3/020
Lvl 62.04 - 62.54 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 13/100 Crit rate: 13% - 2/020___2/020___2/020___6/020___1/020
At 62.54 to 62.99 lost count due to slugsliders and my determination to kill them all... had to remake @ 62.99 and restart count

Lvl 62.99 - 63.56 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 22/100 Crit rate: 22% - 2/020___6/020___6/020___4/020___4/020
Lvl 63.56 - 64.07 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 15/100 Crit rate: 15% - 3/020___3/020___1/020___5/020___3/020
Lvl 64.07 - 64.56 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 10/100 Crit rate: 10% - 3/020___1/020___1/020___1/020___4/020
Lvl 64.56 - 65.06 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 16/100 Crit rate: 16% - 4/020___3/020___4/020___2/020___3/020
Roughly 15% so far

Lvl 00.00 - 00.00 Str 132 Dex 39 Crits/Hits: 00/000 Crit rate: 00% - 0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000___0/000
Member
Posts: 40,183
Joined: Apr 29 2006
Gold: 20,826.51
Feb 12 2019 05:44am
Damn, lost a lot of information from 65.06 to 68.49.
I was obtaining on average 17% with around 600 actions from recollection.
Pity game dropped and I did not copy post reply before clicking on Ladder Slasher portal.

Anyway, it seems the extra 30 strength and the 5 dexterity did conclude that your hypothesis is correct.
I haven't tested Dexterity, but you have information already I assume. I think I will do another test on
Spears / Polearms at a later date, this data retrieval is time consuming since I jot down everything during
game play.
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Posts: 27,620
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Gold: 2,746.15
Feb 12 2019 09:20am
It's very hard to get the real benefit laid out in writing for crit strike. Due to how it can scale for the user. Everything posted here if from single attack non abilities.
The better the clicker, the more efficient he is in using his abilities, full group and the adjusted spawn rates, luck of the draw on 7+ monster waves; will all boost the effectiveness crit strike has on your damage.
Where as it's great to have an idea on how it does in single attack, solo, non ability use; it's the smallest portion of how the community plays the game.
That being said it's also why we can't put a number of crit with how it helps in the group, ability style because it'll vary with clicker, ability use, luck of the draw on waves.
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Feb 12 2019 10:25am
Quote (PowerTripped @ Feb 13 2019 04:20am)
It's very hard to get the real benefit laid out in writing for crit strike. Due to how it can scale for the user. Everything posted here if from single attack non abilities.
The better the clicker, the more efficient he is in using his abilities, full group and the adjusted spawn rates, luck of the draw on 7+ monster waves; will all boost the effectiveness crit strike has on your damage.
Where as it's great to have an idea on how it does in single attack, solo, non ability use; it's the smallest portion of how the community plays the game.
That being said it's also why we can't put a number of crit with how it helps in the group, ability style because it'll vary with clicker, ability use, luck of the draw on waves.


I don't get where you are coming from when you talk about Group dynamics compared to the tests so far.

As an example, if you had 5 group members that only use Battle axe between 110-142 strength / 32-40 Dexterity, each person would basically have a 10-15% chance to do a critical hit, whether they use an ability of not. [Note: This is not including any armor pierce / quick draw or critical strike add ons]

Now, if we find a good stat number for different weapons reaching the same critical hit chance of 10-15%, and mix it up in a group, each person would still retain that % chance whether or not using an ability.

If I look at your post a bit more, let us say a person uses Multistrike, so, when they use this ability vs 9 wave, it has 9 times the chance to do a critical hit, it can vary from 1-9, but, each hit has a 10-15% critical hit chance in theory.

If I misread your post can you point it out in a different way? Thanks.

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Feb 12 2019 10:25am
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Posts: 18,170
Joined: Mar 15 2008
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Feb 12 2019 11:23am
Quote (PowerTripped @ Feb 12 2019 05:20am)
It's very hard to get the real benefit laid out in writing for crit strike. Due to how it can scale for the user. Everything posted here if from single attack non abilities.
The better the clicker, the more efficient he is in using his abilities, full group and the adjusted spawn rates, luck of the draw on 7+ monster waves; will all boost the effectiveness crit strike has on your damage.
Where as it's great to have an idea on how it does in single attack, solo, non ability use; it's the smallest portion of how the community plays the game.
That being said it's also why we can't put a number of crit with how it helps in the group, ability style because it'll vary with clicker, ability use, luck of the draw on waves.


Lol. And armor pierce and powershot show up in red right? Reread what you wrote again. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

If you have some data to contribute please post it here, but please don’t spam this topic and get it closed too :/
Member
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Feb 12 2019 11:42am
Quote (BWConformity @ Feb 12 2019 12:23pm)
Lol. And armor pierce and powershot show up in red right? Reread what you wrote again. It doesn’t make any sense at all.

If you have some data to contribute please post it here, but please don’t spam this topic and get it closed too :/


How is anything that ive said spam? Yes armor pierce and powershot showed red for 10 years until it was changed, welcome. You have to get out of the hole that you play in and realize where all of your experience lies in the game and considers others, vastly more experience in other ways of playing it.

What are you confused about in what I posted? You've been recording stats based on single attack, solo, no abilities used correct? That doesn't translate to the play style of the many. What I mentioned is in 5 man group play it's just not the same. We can't say the crits spawned from using multi strike vs 6+ monsters is going to avg out to the same recorded stats as the above posted. That's how we see so much variation when the clicking styles ability casting efficiency comes into play. But hey you and rex knock yourselves out with the back and forth text walls.

I didn’t get the last one closed, that started at post #20 who just can’t help himself.

This post was edited by PowerTripped on Feb 12 2019 12:04pm
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Gold: 20,826.51
Feb 12 2019 05:56pm
Quote (PowerTripped @ Feb 13 2019 06:42am)
What are you confused about in what I posted? You've been recording stats based on single attack, solo, no abilities used correct? That doesn't translate to the play style of the many. What I mentioned is in 5 man group play it's just not the same. We can't say the crits spawned from using multi strike vs 6+ monsters is going to avg out to the same recorded stats as the above posted. That's how we see so much variation when the clicking styles ability casting efficiency comes into play. But hey you and rex knock yourselves out with the back and forth text walls.


It is basic logic. It is not about whether one uses an ability or not. This is based on the ATTACK actions ONLY, so, when a person uses an ability with multiple targets, one would assume that it is classed as one(1) attack action. It is one action, but, because it hits multiple targets (let's say 6 for now), each target is counted as 1 a piece which is a total of 6 ATTACK actions.

How do I base this off, simple, when people use Multistrike in a group vs a 9 monster wave, that person has 9 times the chance to gain a prof point instead of 1 (1 being the initial action using the ability). This has been pointed out by many players over the years.

EDIT: Haven't you noticed it when people use multiple attack abilities that one or some monsters get critically hit using that ability once? I remember this even from using TwoHitBack & Revenge.

Note: I use healing actions during these tests, are you saying that these healing actions should be acknowledged in the test because it may corrupt the Critical Hit chance percentage?

This post was edited by izParagonzi on Feb 12 2019 06:12pm
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