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Aug 15 2012 06:04pm
Quote (Gutah @ Aug 15 2012 01:41pm)
I just started intermittent fasting.

I'm sure you got a lot of questions bout this but what are your thoughts on it?




Yes, this has been discussed quite a bit, and has got plenty of people removed from the sticky permanently with all the flaming some IF worshipers like to give.

Here is the bottom line.

For PURE cutting, IF is good, especially when combined with keto.

For any type of bulking/muscle building, IF is total garbage and should be disregarded.


The concept in burning fat and building muscle simultaneously can NOT be done effectively without one of two things. 1. Superior mesomorph genetics with excellent diet and exercise routines 2. Plenty of injectable and oral "assistance".


I can elaborate further, but it would be better if you asked me some more direct question(s) regarding IF and I will answer them in kind.
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Aug 15 2012 06:05pm
Quote (shadex151 @ Aug 15 2012 04:39pm)
Been benching for almost a month now but when i bench my wrist tends to bend causing it to hurt after i finish
do you have any tips on how to get it to not bend? thanks


This is a very common problem. Here are a few tips:

1. Try the suicide grip (fingers not wrapped around the bar)

2. Back up on the bench more so that you can keep the wrists straight and in line naturally

3. Try some good gloves with wrist wraps, such as Harbingers.

4. Substitute Dumbbells for standard straight bar bench.
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Aug 15 2012 06:06pm
Quote (Nevada @ Aug 15 2012 06:07pm)
I just found some "Vanilla meal replacement shakes" box in my closet...been there a while I guess I didn't even know I had those lol...(box of 12 in cans to drink)

Im just wondering if drinking those are any good if you're trying to drop a few pounds or im better eating real meals every day instead of drinking those. (im not looking to drink those everyday or replace all my meals with shakes lol, rather eat real food...but mixing some occasionally)
Im not the biggest fan of shakes especially vanilla ones but im sure drinking a few every x days cannot hurt and maybe be helpful?

Let me know what you think
And if it's any good, how many per week is it preferable to drink?

I am guessing those shakes were only made to drink if you are too busy to make a meal or at work or drink that instead of skipping a meal (since everything is better than not eating)
I know there are proteins shakes etc...but I eat alot of proteins already so I doubt proteins shakes are for me.

thanks =D

e/ if u want the info about the calories and fat numbers etc...I can check for ya^^ I suck with those




I will need to know the exact macros and ingredients of the shake. Alternatively, link me to the product online.
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Aug 15 2012 06:14pm
Quote (Archmage @ Aug 15 2012 06:35pm)


Judging by your questions, I am assuming you are a total beginner. As a result, here is the basics you will need to understand.

1. You are already low body fat, you lack muscle mass. The diet/workout routine for you will be geared towards mass. You can cut down later once you build the foundation if excess fat is gained with the large amount of muscle.

2. You will need to STICK to the plan and not start deviating. You will have to work through pain, eat when you aren't hungry, drink so much water you have to urinate every 1-2 hours, and even turn down some things you enjoy for the quest of becoming a god among men.

3. You will need to dedicate money, time, and willpower to this quest. Supplements and food cost money. Working out, sleeping and eating properly, also take a lot of time.

4. You will need to focus very hard on your goals, and work a little bit harder each day towards them.



Now, if you still want to begin, here is where you shall start.



Try these workout plans:


http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=21269614&f=60&p=345300636

5x5 plan (strength and size)


START WITH 5x5 for at least 4-6 months!! Move into Hypertrophy after the 5x5 for another 2-4 months.


http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=21269614&p=327158583

Hypertrophy Plan (volume, pump, and cut).


and also use this for abs:

http://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=21269614&f=60&p=330745031
Abs Workout Routine



As for diet - you will need a solid bulking diet with proper supplementation to accomplish this.


For 6'2 180 you will want around 3,000 calories to achieve what you desire.

You will want approximately 40/40/20 as far as caloric breakdown (40% protein, 40% carbs, and 20% fats). Each gram of protein or carbs has 4 calories whereas each gram of fats has 9 calories. So out of 3,000 calories - 600 calories (20%) will be from fat, or approximately 66g (round it up to 70 for our purposes). Carbs and protein will be 1,200 calories each for a total of 300g each.

So a 3,000 cal diet lean bulking diet would be 300g carbs, 300g protein, and 70g fat.


A sample meal plan for you would be:


Meal 1 - 3 whole eggs + 1 cup oatmeal + 1 large serving of fruit (any type)
Meal 2 - 2 slices whole grain bread w/ 4-6 oz sliced low-sodium meat (turkey/chicken/ham) and cheese (2% reduced fat and low sodium) w/ veggies made into a sandwich
Meal 3 - Protein Shake (any brand, make sure to get approx 40g protein) + 1 large serving of fruit + handful of mixed nuts
Meal 4 - 1 large chicken breast or lean steak + 1 cup brown rice + 1/2 cup black beans + large serving of veggies
Meal 5 - 1 can of tuna + whole grain crackers + mayo/mustard + veggies or salad
Meal 6 - 1 cup cottage cheese + cinnamon + mixed nuts


You can change this meal plan up as much as you like as long as you preserve the macros needed above and eat every 2-3 hours. Don't forget to drink at least 1 - 1.5 gal of water per day as well!


Ok now the supplements:


First of all, creatine is a MUST.

I would recommend Kre-Alkalyn caps (take 2 pre-workout and 2 post workout on training days, or just 2 in the AM and 2 in the PM on non-workout days)



next, the other supplements:


1. Multivitamin (NOW! Adam or CL Orange Triad) - Take with breakfast and with meal 5)
2. Vitamin C (NOW! C-1000) - take 4g per day (1x capsule every 3-4 hours)
3. Vitamin D (NOW! D 5000 iu) - take one 5,000mg capsule per day with breakfast
4. Kre Alkalyn (see dosing instructions above)
5. Arginine + Ornithine (NOW! Arginine + Ornithine) - take 4 capsules pre-workout, post-workout, and pre-bedtime
6. BCAA (Optimum Nutrition BCAA caps) - take 4 capsules pre-workout, 2 during workout, 4 post-workout, and 2 pre-bedtime


Those are just the basic core supplements for now. There are a lot more I could go into detail about, but for your purposes those should do nicely.

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Aug 15 2012 06:17pm
Quote (EverNineAfter @ Aug 15 2012 07:19pm)
this is my diet, what do you think? around 21xx calories.

1 tuna wrap - 300 cal
2 bison burgers 628
2 cups oatmeal 720
1 medium salad with veggies dono don't care
2 bananas 200
2 scoop whey 260

think dis suffice? ma goal is to cut and health



Hmm...

the diet is low on fruits and veggies. I'd advise 2 more fruits (apples/kiwis/peaches/pears/nectarines/etc) and at least 2-3 more veggies

reduce the oatmeal to 1 cup and throw a scoop of whey in it. Use this POST WORKOUT with 1 of those 2 bananas.


Other than that, looks fine.

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Aug 15 2012 06:54pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Aug 15 2012 08:00pm)
This is an excellent question which I'm glad you asked.

I was actually researching this today and found a LOT of conflicting research. However, the basis of scientific studies with credible labs from credible sources shows that Stevia by itself is absolutely safe in moderate amounts. In some cases, Stevia can also be used therapeutically to treat high blood pressure, reduce the risk of stroke or heart attack, and also increase appetite in patients with cancer. In some studies, there was a reduced development of certain types of cancers.

With regard to the negative side effects, this is HIGHLY debated. There has not been a credible research study that shows any correlation between mild/moderate stevia use and consistent negative side effects. However, some people (outside of studies) have reported a plethora of conditions. The problem is, we have no idea if it comes from Stevia, or from underlying medical conditions and/or other supplements or nutritional factors and combinations thereof.

Furthermore, some types of stevia, such as Truvia or Purevia are actually derived from Stevia plant, fermented to extract the erythritol (sugar alcohol) and can thus have a slight laxative effect - and also thus contains yeast which can effect certain yeast-sensitive people with bad breath, yeast infections, or respiratory issues. In general, 2-4 packets of stevia a day would have absolutely no negative effects.

If you are going to use Stevia for a long time, I would opt for Stevia in the Raw, which is pure stevia and nothing more.


Stevia in the Raw also contains whatever that bulking agent is, I think

Anyway, how would i go about volunteering for one of those studies? I'm consuming moderate amounts now (<10 packs of NOW! brand or 1/3 cup stevia-in-the-raw when baking), but it wouldn't surprise me if I relapse in the future and go back to 100+ packs a day for months. I'm sure those researchers would love to study me. Is there a single posting online somewhere I could look? Or is that against the rules of a study and they have to randomly select people?
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Aug 15 2012 06:56pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Aug 15 2012 08:06pm)
I will need to know the exact macros and ingredients of the shake. Alternatively, link me to the product online.


Can't find the link of the same exact product.

It's "Personnelle Nutrium meal replacement vanilla shake"
On the box it's written
- Lactose free
- Gluten free


Gonna be long :(


235 ML per can
Energy - 250 cal
proteins - 9,4g
fat - 6,7g
satured 0.8g
trans 0 g
cholesterol 5 mg

Carboyhdrates 38 g
Sodium 250 mg
Potassium 375 mg


Ingredients
Water
Sugar
corn maltodextriin
milk protein concentrate
canola oil
soy protein isolate
corn oil
natural and artificial flavour
calcium-ciltrate malate
potassium phosphalte
salt
magnesium phosphalte
potassium citrate
carageeenan
sodium phosphate
soy lecithin
ascorbic acid
colour
ferric acetate
niaciinamide
vitamine A palmitate
manganese sulphate
cupric sulphate
calcium d panthothentate
vitamin d3
pyridoxine hydrochloride
thiamine hydrachlrodie
riboflavin
sodium molybdate
folic acid
potassium iodide
chromium chloride
biotin
sodium
selenite
cyanocabalamin

Contains, Milk, soy



That's what it says~
As you can tell, I am totally awful when it comes to counting stuff and numbers...I know sugar is listed as ingredient but theres sugar in so many stuff that it means nothing to me when I read this lol
*confuse*

This post was edited by Nevada on Aug 15 2012 07:04pm
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Aug 15 2012 09:44pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ 15 Aug 2012 19:00)
This is an excellent question which I'm glad you asked.

I was actually researching this today and found a LOT of conflicting research. However, the basis of scientific studies with credible labs from credible sources shows that Stevia by itself is absolutely safe in moderate amounts. In some cases, Stevia can also be used therapeutically to treat high blood pressure, reduce the risk of stroke or heart attack, and also increase appetite in patients with cancer. In some studies, there was a reduced development of certain types of cancers.

With regard to the negative side effects, this is HIGHLY debated. There has not been a credible research study that shows any correlation between mild/moderate stevia use and consistent negative side effects. However, some people (outside of studies) have reported a plethora of conditions. The problem is, we have no idea if it comes from Stevia, or from underlying medical conditions and/or other supplements or nutritional factors and combinations thereof.

Furthermore, some types of stevia, such as Truvia or Purevia are actually derived from Stevia plant, fermented to extract the erythritol (sugar alcohol) and can thus have a slight laxative effect - and also thus contains yeast which can effect certain yeast-sensitive people with bad breath, yeast infections, or respiratory issues. In general, 2-4 packets of stevia a day would have absolutely no negative effects.

If you are going to use Stevia for a long time, I would opt for Stevia in the Raw, which is pure stevia and nothing more.


Cool stuff, sounds great.
Was looking into getting the liquid stevia, although powder seems pretty cool too. I would believe there is no difference between the two correct? And pure, yes, always :)
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Aug 15 2012 11:14pm
Quote (SKCRaynor @ Aug 15 2012 04:04pm)
Yes, this has been discussed quite a bit, and has got plenty of people removed from the sticky permanently with all the flaming some IF worshipers like to give.

Here is the bottom line.

For PURE cutting, IF is good, especially when combined with keto.

For any type of bulking/muscle building, IF is total garbage and should be disregarded.


The concept in burning fat and building muscle simultaneously can NOT be done effectively without one of two things. 1. Superior mesomorph genetics with excellent diet and exercise routines  2. Plenty of injectable and oral "assistance".


I can elaborate further, but it would be better if you asked me some more direct question(s) regarding IF and I will answer them in kind.


Yeah I'm using it for cutting.

I'm taking some creatine atm and only creatine; is it bad doing it on an empty stomach?

Would it be beneficial to take some fat burners while IF?

Also taking whey protein with water is good while cutting but when should i be taking it? After a meal or before my first meal or after my last meal.
and my eating window is 12pm-5pm

Last question/favor.. Could you post me that link to the cutting routine workouts.. Had it saved on my profile but i erased it :Z..

Thanks
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Aug 16 2012 07:44am
Quote (carteblanche @ Aug 15 2012 08:54pm)
Stevia in the Raw also contains whatever that bulking agent is, I think

Anyway, how would i go about volunteering for one of those studies? I'm consuming moderate amounts now (<10 packs of NOW! brand or 1/3 cup stevia-in-the-raw when baking), but it wouldn't surprise me if I relapse in the future and go back to 100+ packs a day for months. I'm sure those researchers would love to study me. Is there a single posting online somewhere I could look? Or is that against the rules of a study and they have to randomly select people?


Great question again.

You usually have to be "randomly" selected. However, you can volunteer yourself to a local university or research group and see if they need a candidate to study for stevia effects. I would start calling around if you are interested.
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