I mean I also hope it isn't Jamie, but you could use the same "why would he have spent so much time on Jamies redemption arc if it wasn't him" argument similar to your John one. So at this point I'm not sure how you can make any argument stronger than the other.

After Ned was killed, his broadsword (Ice) was melted down and made into 2 smaller longswords: Oathkeeper (which Jaime gave to Brienne) and Widow's Wail (which went to Joffrey and Jaime took after Joffrey was gone).



I understand where you're coming from and I felt the same way until the show surpassed the books. I agree that if there was a casino is Westeros, Jon would be the betting favorite to be Azor Ahai. If I were there, I'd put my money on Jaime at 5:1 odds. I think that's a good value bet.

True true. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

The redemption play on Jamie was all to make it feel more sorrowful/painful when he eventually kills his sister and then himself. That's about the only FOR SURE thing I know, Jamie is going to kill Cersei and it's going to be glorious.



Didn't it go to Tommen after Joffrey, or was that only in the books? Obviously he's dead too now in the show, but I don't recall Jamie ever actually taking the sword, but you're right, they do have that other sword just chilling in King's Landing. I just assumed the acting king (Cersei) took it, and that it's most likely the mountain wielding it.

5:1 seems fair and I get why people would think another surprise is coming with this show, it would be weird though and a giant fuck you to the fan-base after waiting YEARS to find out what happened to Jon lol.

This post was edited by jadeoshbogosh on Sep 26 2018 11:53am

Jaime has it. That's explicitly stated in the show. The Mountain wouldn't even use a longsword. He'd use the broadest broadsword a smith could ever make.



Jon/Dany is the centerpiece there.

https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Night%27s_King


The fan theory is that we will see a modern version of that legend with the genders reversed. The male (Jon) becomes Walkerized and Dany marries him. Their union seals the peace between the living and the dead. That's certainly "grand enough" to fit the hero profile that Jon and Dany have grown into.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Sep 26 2018 01:00pm

When was this stated in the show? I don't remember that at all. I was planning to rewatch the entire thing before the last season for shits and giggles, but it seems like I'm forgetting all sorts of shit. I probably need to so I can fully enjoy the final season.



No way in hell it would happen in the book, but I could see it happening the show for the sole purpose of forcing another Valyrian sword vs Valyrian sword battle.




This would be fucking lame. Maybe they can make it not suck, but I can almost guarantee I'd end up salty as fuck if they went this route. Would be willing to be the Others/Walkers are going to be destroyed for good following this conflict. It's the end of Martin's masterpiece and it'd be lame if he left it open with so many fucking fucked up possibilities at the end.

http://gameofthrones.wikia.com/wiki/Widow%27s_Wail



I halfheartedly share that opinion. But I wholeheartedly feel that it would be ultra lame to have Jon be nothing but the pure 'Mary Sue' stereotypical hero character that he has been all along.

Conversely, making the audience think back to S1E1 and see how close the hero (Jaime) had been to killing the villain (Bran) would be awesome. At the time it happened, it made the audience dislike Jaime. But having our expectations flipped 180 degrees by the end would be such a GRRM thing to do. And Jaime has already completed about 150 degrees of that arc. Seems logical to think he'd go the rest of the way.

This post was edited by Kayeto on Sep 26 2018 01:48pm

Aw fuck, that's right. I remember that scene now. Thanks for clarifying.

You're right that it would 100000% be a GRRM thing to do and it'd be pretty fucking epic, but to be blunt, it would sit poorly with me and that's why I'm fighting it so hard. Regardless of whether or not Bran was going to be the antagonist, he was an innocent kid at the time and Jamie was a vile sister fucking shit stain. No matter what he does to redeem himself, I'll never be able to turn a blind eye to how he's treated everyone in the name of possibly the most evil person throughout the entire series. His redemption arc will still be completed when he stabs the bitch through the heart with his last breathe or kills himself after, I just can't ever accept him as the hero of anything.

It is kinda lame and uncharacteristic for GRRM to go the stereotypical overly noble hero route, but I think it plays with Jon. The kid grew up in a household where his dad wasn't allowed to show affection to him for fear of his wife's vengeance, his matriarchal figure loathed him with a passion and his siblings looked down on him as less than throughout his entire life. Almost everyone in GRRM's world who's previously or is currently in an important role or leading position, was born into a position of power, only ever knowing a blessed life prior to the events of our story. Danny, Tyrion and Jon are the three leading personalities on the side of good at the moment and they all share that same thing, being less than, mistreated or abused for something that they had absolutely no control over. GRRM is insanely meticulous and while it's completely possible, I can't possibly imagine he spent this much time planning all this epic shit around Jon to have him not be the hero.


What I'm hoping for is that everyone is wrong. Watch GRRM have some crazy fucking shit that he had been hinting out the whole time and no one ever picked up on it. I would be ecstatic if he starts off the first episode by killing both Jamie and Jon and leaving everyone to ponder what the fuck just happened.

Jamie already confirmed to be in every episode of final season.

TBH I want it to end with night king victory. All the major houses dead.

Or all major houses dead and NK+John both kill eachother.

Last season.

I dont remember the specific scene he gets it but I do remember Olenna asking if he was going to kill her with it.

Crazy lady let's the walkers in, kills all the good people, then she blows up the town and sails away with some lickers.