d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Pelosi Expected To Announce Trump Impeachment > Proceedings Soon.
Prev17778798081139Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Oct 7 2019 05:09pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 7 2019 03:39pm)
Except for the part where it's not.


I don't think it's legal to do it directly because you're not allowed to take something of "value" from foreigners. You're allowed to do it through an American intermediary, but not directly.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/464363-fec-chairwoman-confirms-accepting-opposition-research-from-foreign-national
Member
Posts: 50,812
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 5,846.00
Oct 7 2019 06:16pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 7 2019 06:09pm)
I don't think it's legal to do it directly because you're not allowed to take something of "value" from foreigners. You're allowed to do it through an American intermediary, but not directly.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/464363-fec-chairwoman-confirms-accepting-opposition-research-from-foreign-national


except that wouldn't work for a dozen reasons;

Quote
  • Trying to count unpaid, non-coerced, information given freely with no direct financial application as a "thing of value" would infringe on the first amendment by restricting constitutionally protected free speech and association.
  • It would also incriminate the vast majority of politicians and journalists in the whole country and a good chunk of all citizens, because virtually any conversation with a plausible political benefit would now count as an illegal campaign donation. The statute does not only apply to politicians, it applies to anyone.
  • It would be a constitutionally prohibited ex post facto redefinition of a law to completely change its effect and apply it retroactively, violating articles 1 sections 9 & 10
  • It would be an unconstitutional overly vague law, violating the 5th amendment
  • It would infringe on the constitutional powers of sovereign diplomacy granted to the president.
  • It would not pass the FEC's irrespective test, as its a request that could exist irrespective of a campaign, same reason a politician doesn't need to use campaign funds and report it when he gets a haircut, despite haircuts having an effect on elections.
  • It would be a slap on the wrist, with the FEC's normal penalty being restitution of value and a minor fine. For example, Ilhan Omar was found guilty of 6 campaign finance violations from 2016 and had to repay their $3,469 value plus a $500 civil penalty. Neverminding there's no conceivable way to put a legitimate dollar amount on information from Ukraine, Mueller's report indicated that in court it might be valued at a token $1, meaning the penalty would be to pay something like $1 to Ukraine and $500 to the government.
  • It wouldn't be remotely impeachable, as that such campaign finance violations never have been. Obama was fined for taking massive illegal contributions to his campaign, Republicans didn't impeach him when they held control of congress. It doesn't even fit the constitutional definition of 'high crimes or misdemeanors' as its a civil offense, below a misdemeanor let alone felony.


That FEC chairwoman is a democrat partisan who has been loudly reiterating their talking points without any power of the committee, which lacks quorum anyway. What she says is pretty meaningless, and totally unenforceable. If what she said was actually true, Robert Mueller would have pressed charges against Donald Trump Jr for starters. Politicians of both parties came away from the Muellerburger by claiming that foreign election interference is illegal and colluding with foreign powers to influence the campaign would be illegal, but in reality there's no applicable statute and the one trial that is underway, the Concord Management one, is basically rubbing the constitutional all over its ass while proceeding as a total farce


Civil libertarianism is basically extinct at this point, but I'd like to pretend to carry that torch still. So its particularly disgusting to me when the country is running around searching for a crime to suit the conduct

This post was edited by Goomshill on Oct 7 2019 06:18pm
Member
Posts: 33,925
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Oct 7 2019 06:50pm
Modern democracy is a product of Christianity and Protestantism. The first can't survive without the latter. The civil can't be separated from the political. Were watching the results play before our eyes when we remove the bottom support beam from democracy.
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Oct 7 2019 07:05pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 7 2019 05:50pm)
Modern democracy is a product of Christianity and Protestantism. The first can't survive without the latter. The civil can't be separated from the political. Were watching the results play before our eyes when we remove the bottom support beam from democracy.


Protestants are the fucking worst. If I had it my way, I'd send them back to their heretic countries. America was founded by a bunch of lunatic religious rejects and America was shit until the Irish and Italians came.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 7 2019 05:16pm)
except that wouldn't work for a dozen reasons;



Well it does because the authorities say so and that's what matters. Might is right, right?
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Oct 7 2019 07:06pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 7 2019 07:50pm)
Modern democracy is a product of Christianity and Protestantism. The first can't survive without the latter. The civil can't be separated from the political. Were watching the results play before our eyes when we remove the bottom support beam from democracy.


The western values of freedom are directly antithetical to the christian values expressed in the bible. The only reason modern democracy exists is because we had great thinkers who explicitly removed all religion from the process.
Member
Posts: 33,925
Joined: Oct 9 2008
Gold: 2,528.52
Oct 7 2019 07:14pm
Quote (thundercock @ Oct 7 2019 09:05pm)
Protestants are the fucking worst. If I had it my way, I'd send them back to their heretic countries. America was founded by a bunch of lunatic religious rejects and America was shit until the Irish and Italians came.


Deus Vult!

Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 7 2019 09:06pm)
The western values of freedom are directly antithetical to the christian values expressed in the bible. The only reason modern democracy exists is because we had great thinkers who explicitly removed all religion from the process.


Or you're just a silly edgy internet atheist.

The inventor of the scientific method was a protestant who went to church every week.
Member
Posts: 28,877
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 10,712.00
Oct 7 2019 07:49pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Oct 7 2019 09:06pm)
The western values of freedom are directly antithetical to the christian values expressed in the bible. The only reason modern democracy exists is because we had great thinkers who explicitly removed all religion from the process.


nah


You're a dishonest little man that hates Christians and the best you can muster is a 9th graders understanding of the Bible.
Member
Posts: 61,687
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 28.77
Oct 7 2019 08:45pm
It’s illegal.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Oct 7 2019 08:49pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Oct 7 2019 08:49pm)
nah

You're a dishonest little man that hates Christians and the best you can muster is a 9th graders understanding of the Bible.


Nah, there's a reason the pilgrims didn't establish America, because they came over to establish a theocracy. The founders explicitly rejected the insertion of Christianity into the United States government, and were specifically aware of the pilgrims establishments while they did so.
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
Oct 7 2019 08:50pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Oct 7 2019 08:14pm)
The inventor of the scientific method was a protestant who went to church every week.


Congratulations. Newton practiced alchemy and believed in turning lead to gold. Not every idea from great thinkers is a good one. The inventor of the scientific method did not insert his religious beliefs into that part of his work, and there's a reason for it.
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev17778798081139Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll