d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate >
Poll > Why Did(nt) You Get Vaccinated?
Prev1646566676870Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 3466Replies: 691Track Topic
  Guests cannot view or vote in polls. Please register or login.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
#651
Sep 10 2021 02:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Sep 2021 13:51)
No, it does not, the factor ranged between 6 and 13. Furthermore, the real headline coming out of the Israeli study is that a single dose of the vaccine can further cut the risk of infection in half among the previously infected.


I'm wondering if he read another study that came out that indicated that Natural Immunity was ~300% more effective than two shots of the Pfizer vaccine. There've been several of these studies wandering around, which is part of why I'm hesitant to quote the exact numbers.

Bottom line that I've seen is that natural immunity can be trusted, as is always the case, every bit as much as vaccines.
Member
Posts: 34,649
Joined: Jul 2 2007
Gold: 273.37
#652
Sep 10 2021 02:56pm
Quote (Handcuffs @ Sep 10 2021 04:27pm)
Two things come to mind:

1) Referring to obese people as "evil people" is an intentionally uncharitable description of my position as I've not once described the unvaccinated in such a manner.

2) Of higher-risk health groups, such as the obese, chronic smokers, etc., they find themselves in the hospital at rates that are much more spread out across time and do not burden the health-care system in the primary, concerning way that the unvaccinated have: filling ICU beds to capacity, placing hospitals in positions where they have to practice in beyond-standard ratios, delaying elective and non-emergency surgeries, etc.


To your first point, it's true that you haven't said that, and I'm not implying that you have.

To your second point, it's a matter of supply elasticity. It's true that COVID has placed a unique burden on the health-care system, but it hasn't collapsed yet, and it will have to adapt to our new normal.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ Sep 10 2021 04:28pm)
Only when it actually becomes an issue, which covid has and obesity hasnt


Of course they're issues. How much of our wealth has been funneled down the obesity rabbit hole? Smoking?
Member
Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
Gold: 0.00
#653
Sep 10 2021 02:58pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 10 2021 03:55pm)
I'm wondering if he read another study that came out that indicated that Natural Immunity was ~300% more effective than two shots of the Pfizer vaccine. There've been several of these studies wandering around, which is part of why I'm hesitant to quote the exact numbers.

Bottom line that I've seen is that natural immunity can be trusted, as is always the case, every bit as much as vaccines.


Sure, but you can get natural immunity after being vaccinated and you arent nearly as likely to go to the hospital.

Its not a choice. Your body doesn't stop adapting to pathogens because you've seen it before.
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
#654
Sep 10 2021 02:59pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 10 Sep 2021 13:56)
Of course they're issues. How much of our wealth has been funneled down the obesity rabbit hole? Smoking?


He refuses to acknowledge that the majority of (non-elderly) Covid hospitalizations AND deaths are of obese patients. He's feeling a tad defensive, leave him alone.

Quote (NetflixAdaptationWidow @ 10 Sep 2021 13:58)
Sure, but you can get natural immunity after being vaccinated and you arent nearly as likely to go to the hospital.

Its not a choice. Your body doesn't stop adapting to pathogens because you've seen it before.


Why, if you already HAVE natural immunity, would you want or ever knowingly consent to injecting foreign matter into your body, especially when that foreign matter has had no phase 4 studies?

I'll tell you what, hit me up in another 10-20 years, I'd be happy to get an mRNA shot if it turns out there's no or very limited and specific side effects. Please explain to me the benefits of doing so now?

Again, I've had Covid. I have no NEED for the vaccine that is not "experimental" but I still encourage others who're at risk to take it. If I were in an at risk category and had not had the virus, I'd probably get J&J if I could, though around here, you cannot choose which vaccine you get, which is also extremely fucked up, but a completely different topic.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Sep 10 2021 03:03pm
Member
Posts: 22,439
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 96.11
#655
Sep 10 2021 02:59pm
Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 10 2021 01:56pm)
To your first point, it's true that you haven't said that, and I'm not implying that you have.

To your second point, it's a matter of supply elasticity. It's true that COVID has placed a unique burden on the health-care system, but it hasn't collapsed yet, and it will have to adapt to our new normal.


I think the regional stress that some hospitals have been under in some areas of the country are sufficiently troubling despite not being a full collapse. That stress has also been significantly reduced by those who have gotten vaccinated. While I can't speculate whether the complete absence of vaccines would have lead to a collapse or not, it is certain that we'd be far worse without them--and particularly so for the most hard-hit regions.
Member
Posts: 35,912
Joined: May 19 2004
Gold: 190.89
Warn: 80%
#656
Sep 10 2021 03:01pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 10 2021 04:20pm)
I'm unclear whether it's related to the discussion at hand. I've seen no data regarding any surge of breakthrough case hospitalizations. Meaning those with natural immunity have not been being hospitalized in any significant numbers, nor have those who've been vaccinated been hospitalized in significantly relevant numbers.

If anything, I'd say everyone should be celebrating the fact that the overwhelming majority of hospitalizations are from the unvaccinated. That means the vaccines work. That was the entire point of the vaccines, wasn't it?

However, that says absolutely nothing regarding those who'd previously caught the virus. Perhaps if data comes out showing a statistically significant number of "natural immunity breakthrough cases" I will revise my opinion. For now, that doesn't matter, and isn't relevant.

I'll also point out that hospitalization data hasn't changed. Those being hospitalized with severe symptoms are still by and large obese, elderly, have preexisting heart or respiratory diseases, etc. AKA, these are the very at-risk group whom I believe SHOULD be encouraged to get the vaccine.



This is one post I certainly can't support. "Fake Vaccinations"? Gonna have to clarify there, bud. I can certainly see cases for vaccines being used as a tool for authoritarian power grabs, but where's the "fake" come from?



You can't read, can you, or you hate facts? The virus is called SARS-CoV-2. "Covid-19" is a symptom-based disease that people experience from the virus. Do you understand the difference? Now, that quote says, directly, "COVID-19 vaccines reduce the risk of people spreading the virus that causes COVID-19" which clearly states that it REDUCES, does not PREVENT. Full stop. Now, there's no evidence or data that indicates that it reduces rather than prevents, but if it does only reduce rather than prevent, there's no data regarding how much, or how much vs natural immunity.

Are you done, or are you so bored that you just wish to continue looking stupid?

A vaccination grants immunity. The definition for vaccine was literally CHANGED to allow these "fake" vaccines to be called vaccines due to "protecting against" infection instead of immunity.
Member
Posts: 20,804
Joined: Jun 21 2005
Gold: 1,891.73
#657
Sep 10 2021 03:07pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Sep 10 2021 04:55pm)
I'm wondering if he read another study that came out that indicated that Natural Immunity was ~300% more effective than two shots of the Pfizer vaccine. There've been several of these studies wandering around, which is part of why I'm hesitant to quote the exact numbers.

Bottom line that I've seen is that natural immunity can be trusted, as is always the case, every bit as much as vaccines.


The data is still limited, but:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w

Quote
This report details the findings of a case-control evaluation of the association between vaccination and SARS-CoV-2 reinfection in Kentucky during May–June 2021 among persons previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 in 2020. Kentucky residents who were not vaccinated had 2.34 times the odds of reinfection compared with those who were fully vaccinated


Quote
To reduce their likelihood for future infection, all eligible persons should be offered COVID-19 vaccine, even those with previous SARS-CoV-2 infection.
Member
Posts: 22,439
Joined: Mar 3 2007
Gold: 96.11
#658
Sep 10 2021 03:07pm
Quote (net @ Sep 10 2021 02:01pm)
A vaccination grants immunity. The definition for vaccine was literally CHANGED to allow these "fake" vaccines to be called vaccines due to "protecting against" infection instead of immunity.


What do you mean by 'immunity'?
Member
Posts: 21,486
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 438.40
#659
Sep 10 2021 03:10pm
Quote (net @ 10 Sep 2021 14:01)
A vaccination grants immunity. The definition for vaccine was literally CHANGED to allow these "fake" vaccines to be called vaccines due to "protecting against" infection instead of immunity.


This is false. Vaccines do not grant magical "immunity". They never did. Sometimes the vaccine doesn't work. Sometimes, it gives you the virus (polio was bad about that). Sometimes, they work great and provide full immunity. Other times, they merely reduce the symptoms.

The most concerning note to the Covid Vaccines is that generally accepted theories was that once you were fully vaccinated and/or once you recovered from the virus, you would not be a spreader. If you became a carrier of the virus in the future, your body would generate the antibodies to fight off the virus nearly instantly. Apparently SARS-CoV-2 is special and immune to this feature of the immune system.

Likewise, this is one of the first corona/flu type viruses I've seen where there's been a huge flurry over "Asymptomatic Spread". That's not usually a thing. I mean, there are real concerns, without a doubt. But I think you misunderstand what a vaccine is or isn't, and what it does or doesn't do.

If vaccines provided magical immunity all the time, why is Influenza still around? Every year 50%+ of the population takes a flu shot. Yet it continues to thrive. How's that happen?

Quote (penguinhero @ 10 Sep 2021 14:07)
The data is still limited, but:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm?s_cid=mm7032e1_w


Aye, that's the older report that the findings from the Israeli report appear to contradict, now that we have had a bit more time to study.

The question though, is what's the percentage of breakthrough cases. Not just breakthrough cases, but breakthrough cases that lead to hospitalizations? From what I'm seeing, whether fully vaccinated or natural immunity, they're so low as to be statistically irrelevant. Thus, whether it's 2.34x irrelevant or 6-13x better for natural, either way, the key word is still "irrelevant".

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Sep 10 2021 03:13pm
Member
Posts: 66,666
Joined: May 17 2005
Gold: 17,384.69
#660
Sep 10 2021 03:12pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ 10 Sep 2021 21:10)
Sometimes, they work great


*Sometimes" like 95%

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Sep 10 2021 03:12pm
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1646566676870Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2026 d2jsp  Contact