I find this section pretty interesting. Confirms my suspicions that most unemployment issues are still due to 2008's bank crisis:



What is you reason for saying that the joint currency is part of the root cause?

"we mustn’t fall into the trap of the populists or extremes, which consists in saying: “let’s ask the question in a simplistic way: yes or no?”. We know the answer: it is always “no”, whatever the question. We need to overhaul the European project, through and with the people, with much greater democratic stringency than a mere binary question."

http://international.blogs.ouest-france.fr/archive/2017/09/29/macron-sorbonne-verbatim-europe-18583.html

many economists have made the point that the euro currency is a serious disadvantage for countries that do not have the high industrial level of germany for example
a country like greece could sell their stuff like agricultural products much better and easier with their own lower value currency

thats why i made the point of having greece leave the euro for some time to get their economy going instead of pumping our tax money into a black hole



nobody cares about macron, low rating in the polls, people are leaving his movement, already making politics for elites and rich people
what a suprise, he is just prettier donald trump with manners

This post was edited by ampoo on Nov 16 2017 05:24am

Such a bunch of lies & fake news ... Finally you arent worthing more than russians bots, it's true.

It's a minor disadvantage after the gained benefits from standardization. Talk with Brits working in Europe on the issue to somewhat understand how annoying conversion rates can be in business and personal life (and have been pre 2000). The crisis made it evident that the current European banking structure is still fragile, so instead of dismantling it, it needs to be improved. Macron's vision for a more integrated future is something we've been lacking in recent years. We've just had politician mitigating without having a goal for the future. Just for this vision alone, Macron is making his mark standing above competition.

Eventually though, we live in a world with rising superpowers and globalized problems. We can try to stick our heads into the ground not wanting to co-operate with the nations around us, not wanting to form solutions for the inevitable future. Victimize ourselves and kick against governments. But that's just going to destabilize Europe, it's exactly what a Russia would like to see, destabilized Europe losing power and influence.

You might not yet realize that Europeans economies depending on each other has been the best thing to happen for creating peace within Europe. Perhaps someday, it can be modeled world wide.

This post was edited by Knaapie on Nov 16 2017 06:02am

The economies in the constituent nations can be radically different. Money itself already has trouble being a unit of measurement of economic value because it is used to measure things that are qualitatively different from one another. This is called commodity fetishism, where a certain kind of commodity (gold, wampum, fiat currency) takes on a quality of almost religious faith in terms of belief that it is the thing in the universe than can measure anything. It is a basic kind of worship, or fetishism. That being said, these radically different nations could at least manipulate their currency to try to make this untenable thing work, and these macroeconomic interventions have always been somewhat effective in making a bottom when the floor falls out or popping a bubble when its time. With a shared currency however this is not possible. The constituent nations cannot control the measuring stick anymore for their own self interest. This is a tool or ability that they now lack. Central banks are aware of this problem because real economists understand commodity fetishism and the problems it creates.

This post was edited by Skinned on Nov 16 2017 05:58am

why does not creating a gigantic united states of europe shithole mean that we are sticking our heads into the ground and not work with each other?

we can work perfectly well together as a europe of strong and independent nations with a EU that sticks to international politics and trade
keeping countries in a currency that hurts them does not help the continent, so its the current policy destabilizing europe and not the other way around

aside from that, hard working and civilised nations will always have their place in the world like switzerland

Europe would very certainly be at war if europe wasnt made

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_Europe

That list OMG...

Yes we can work perfectly together as independent nations with independent rules and an independent economy, fighting independently about who takes in refugees based up deviating rules and legislation. This is but one issue specifically chosen for you because you can relate to it. And one that is poorly managed with an EU co-operating poorly. In the grand scheme, the temporary increased flow is somewhat insignificant. As long as there are significant difference in living standards there will be immigration, if your country has it great, expect ppl wanting to rush in. You're not the victim here, just the beneficiary of being born in a country that has it great. So with these significant difference in living standards there is a need for a border to not let immigration go beyond a norm that is seen as "manageable". In a way it creates a demand to reduce minimum wage differences within Europe as well.

Every country fighting for their own is counter productive, hence going forward in a more global world with a more united EU seems completely logical.



Rofl.. completely insane

This post was edited by Knaapie on Nov 16 2017 07:18am

working together is a good idea on issues where the interests of the various european countries are similar to one another, but different from the rest of the world. for example facing russian aggression, making trade deals with china or the united states, securing the outer border and so on.

forcing a common position and course of action is a bad idea on issues where the interests and strengths/weaknesses of the various european countries diverge from one another. for example when it comes industry policy, subsidies, or to the attitude towards making debt, inflation and fiscal responsibility.

on those divisive issues, sober coordination (on equal footing) is better than forced unification of cultures, beliefs and attitudes that just dont match.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 16 2017 07:51am