Quote (Knaapie @ 16 Nov 2017 14:01)
Yes we can work perfectly together as independent nations with independent rules and an independent economy, fighting independently about who takes in refugees based up deviating rules and legislation. This is but one issue specifically chosen for you because you can relate to it. And one that is poorly managed with an EU co-operating poorly. In the grand scheme, the temporary increased flow is somewhat insignificant. As long as there are significant difference in living standards there will be immigration, if your country has it great, expect ppl wanting to rush in. You're not the victim here, just the beneficiary of being born in a country that has it great. So with these significant difference in living standards there is a need for a border to not let immigration go beyond a norm that is seen as "manageable". In a way it creates a demand to reduce minimum wage differences within Europe as well.
Every country fighting for their own is counter productive, hence going forward in a more global world with a more united EU seems completely logical.
Rofl.. completely insane
its not only about refugees actually, but migration within the EU as well
massive influx of cheap labour, mainly from eastern europe
many young from spain for example are coming too, when they cant find a job
gypsy clans from bulgaria and romania plundering our welfare state is also a huge problem and the EU couldnt even fix that problem so far (or does not want to)
so there isnt even a concept to make the EU states more equal and organise laws and rules in a way that these people stay in their countries
needless to talk about africa and the middle east
the current EU is overreaching massively, while they cant handle the most basic stuff
however they are the first to cry about hungary when they take action on their own if no one else does it
for me the EU needs to hit reset and get rid of a lot of dead weight
back to the roots
there is no need to forsake independence for europeans to create some kind of committee that can represent us all in global affairs
same with army coordination etc.
of course there is luck or fate, call it whatever you like, involved that i can live in wealthy state, same as you
this didnt just happen on its own, but our ancestors worked hard and fought hard to create that for us, while others could not do that (for whatever reason)
all countries have the same chances and i do not accept african countries to export their overpopulation and problems, that will drag us down to their level eventually
so yeah, we are the victims here eventually, you and me
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 16 Nov 2017 14:49)
working together is a good idea on issues where the interests of the various european countries are similar to one another, but different from the rest of the world. for example facing russian aggression, making trade deals with china or the united states, securing the outer border and so on.
forcing a common position and course of action is a bad idea on issues where the interests and strengths/weaknesses of the various european countries diverge from one another. for example when it comes industry policy, subsidies, or to the attitude towards making debt, inflation and fiscal responsibility.
on those divisive issues, sober coordination (on equal footing) is better than forced unification of cultures, beliefs and attitudes that just dont match.
thats the thing, even within the EU states are obviously looking out for their own interest
for example macrons pathetic attempt to create a european unemployment insurance under the disguise of more unity, when he just wants to extract german money for his army of unemployed
maybe next time