Did my needle swing the same direction when I was denouncing this as another stupid counterproductive halfmeasure before the invasion, saying Joe Biden should either avoid the conflict entirely or take a hard line and face off against Putin directly?
If Tucker Carlson does a hit piece on Israel reviving old christian blood libel tropes or whatever he was yammering about, do I dance to his tune?
But take the counterexample: If the third way neocons/neoliberals all agree on some dogmatic decree about foreign policy or macroeconomics, do you ever disagree with them?

The "Ukrainians" are not one people and don't share one desire. Whatever US/Russian involvement, they were clearly on the path to a bitter civil war without any foreign intervention. Ethnic Russians in the east do not share the values or priorities of the pro-Western West. And they don't care to be raped, tortured, murdered, or you know, burned alive in a trade union hall in odessa. And I remain the only true blooded American on PARD simply because I say I don't give a shit about them one way or the other. If this proxy war actually served our interests I'd have no problems with it, the fate of Ukrainian people is for Ukrainian people to worry about. And if the reasons I oppose the Ukraine war land on that Kissinger lodestar, maybe you should be the one asking yourself why you though this dumb war was going to turn out any better for us than Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria or Yemen did. I think I'm just pointing out a fact dancing naked in front of us with flashing neon arrows, and I'm truly baffled by anyone who can't recognize it, especially now at the 11th hour when we're clearly losing.



A "new government", what, is that something from Helldiver's managed democracy?
They overthrew a lawfully elected legitimate representative democracy government in a violent coup d'etat. Insurrectionists stormed the capitol and took power by force.
The people of Ukraine when it was one country held elections for their own self-determination- and they chose Yanukovych. The minority of western Ukraine overthrew that democracy.

I don't think its America's mantle of responsibility to defend the integrity of Ukrainian democracy or else I'd think we'd be obligated to restore Yanukovych to power and give Russia back its sphere of influence. But I also am not blind to our current CIA meddling and pretend we're roleplaying the jingoistic steroid juiced up patriotic messiah storyline that western propaganda is peddling. We helped overthrow a democracy and put an autocratic regime in power, in America we call this Tuesday.

I can explain it to you but I cannot understand it for you:
Let's debunk the pro-russian 1/ "Nato 2008" or 2/ "Coup 2014" propaganda:
First, let's make it clear that FSB has spent decades spying on Ukraine, attempting to co-opt its institutions, paying off officials and working to impede any perceived drift toward the West. No aspect of the FSB’s intelligence mission outside Russia was more important than burrowing into all levels of Ukrainian society.

1/ "Nato 2008"


At a joint press conference in January 2003, Putin responded to a question about Ukraine. “Ukraine is an independent sovereign state, and it will choose its own path to peace and security”
Source: https://foreignpolicy.com/2022/01/19/putin-russia-ukraine-nato-george-robertson/
4 years before 2008 Russia tried to assassinate the elected Ukrainian president because he was too much "independent" ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yushchenko#TCDD_poisoning
In 2008 "NATO "welcomes Georgia's and Ukraine's aspirations for membership"
=> Wow this is a declaration of war, time to deport children, execute, rape, and loot...
Russia bravely protecting itself from the terrible Nato agression:
Russian missile hits Zaporizhzhia apartments



2/ "Coup 2014"


Answer: Totally incorrect; It was a constitutional vote.
Ukraine’s parliament voted 328–0 (about 73% of its 447 members) to remove President Viktor Yanukovich, who abandoned his Kiev office.
The "president" had to flee to his mother Russia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych#Fleeing_to_Russia
On a side note:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titushky
Titushky were employed by the Yanukovych government with a reported daily pay of 200 hryvnia. Some of them were also suspected to be illegal formations of combat troops carrying concealed pistols. Their aim was to intimidate and disperse demonstrations by opponents of the government, and attack participants and representatives of the media. The term is sometimes translated as "Rent a Thug."

To summarize:

These 3 points are demolishing the "coup" designation made by russian propagandists:

- Yanukovich deliberately lied about joining EU / investments to get elected, then later turned back: protests were perfectly justified
- Yanukovich pro-russian secret police used paid thugs in an attempt to turn the protests into violent riots to proceed (and excuse) repression
- Constitutional vote: Ukraine’s parliament voted 328–0 (about 73% of its 447 members) to remove President Viktor Yanukovich

you can use this as copy pasta the next time a putin's leech is trying to argue around it.

"We have made it legal", said the men with the guns who took over the government

Lovely democracy for you to rally behind.

Here are the facts not your trash propaganda

Will bookmark this and from now copy / paste this every single time you try


1) NATO summit 2008 (official NATO source) --> https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html




2) McCain @Maidan literally telling protesters their future is in the West and that the West is with Ukraine.

Why did Western high ranking politicians show up in Kiev Meanwhile? It's all recorded why are you even trying lol




3) The Ukrainian president decided not to sign and in his role as president he had the power to do so. How often does a US president sign an executive order?

-->




And 4) NATO doubling down even when their shit policies have caused a major war, bunch of morons




Completely and utterly wrecked back to your basement




lol

Loves an unwinnable shit war while US national debt is sitting @35 trillion because of previous unwinnable shit wars

This level of delusion is just mind blowing

Inb4 b-b-but Trump

Russia to practice tactical nuclear weapon scenario to deter West - defence ministry

MOSCOW, May 6 (Reuters) - Russia on Monday said it would hold a military exercise that will include practice for the use of tactical nuclear weapons after what the defence ministry said were provocative threats from Western officials.
The defence ministry said the exercise was ordered by President Vladimir Putin and would test the readiness of non-strategic nuclear forces to perform combat missions.
The military drills will include practice for the preparation and deployment for use of non-strategic nuclear weapons, the defence ministry said. Missile formations in the Southern Military District and naval forces will take part.
"During the exercise, a set of measures will be carried out to practice the issues of preparation and use of non-strategic nuclear weapons," the defence ministry said.
Russia has the world's largest arsenal of nuclear weapons.
The exercise is aimed at ensuring Russia's territorial integrity and sovereignty "in response to provocative statements and threats by certain Western officials against the Russian Federation", the ministry said.

Source: Reuters

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-practice-tactical-nuclear-weapon-scenario-deter-west-defence-ministry-2024-05-06/

you you you... Yanukovych is just a traitor, help yourself reading wikipedia about him loool

Disavowal by party
Yanukovych was soon disowned by the Party of Regions. In a statement issued by Oleksandr Yefremov, parliamentary faction leader, the party and its members "strongly condemn[ed] the criminal orders that led to human victims, an empty state treasury, huge debts, shame before the eyes of the Ukrainian people and the entire world."

Ohh big scary

For those in the "totally won't be an insurgency after the war" gang.
Its already begun.

"Ukrainian man who was drafted into the russian army from an occupied territory ended up shooting 6 russian occupiers to death. The russians are now furious and are searching for him"

Yanukovych broke the commitment to join the EU against the wishes of 38 million people. That is what triggered Maidan.
An elected president having a dictatorial tendency under the pressure of another diactator Vladimir Putin.

Western leaders came to Kiev AFTER the fact. So stop lying an representing it otherwise. Liar.
I know you live in reality where a single strongman making decisions for millions of people is more comfortable for you.
But you are the exception to the rule.
Ukrainians actually had the balls to protest and even lose their lives for what they believed was the right path for Ukraine. Belarusians tried but failed. Georgians are trying. Russians didn't even try as a consequence of how complicit they are in suckling off the state at the behest of an autocratic dictator.

Read the room. The Moscow empire is crumbling. East Germany. Poland. Bulgaria. Hungary. Czech. Georgia. Azerbaijan. Armenia.
Ukraine.

They all left and they don't want back in. No matter how much it hurts your feelings.

100%

This post was edited by Santara on May 6 2024 04:06am