Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Feb 19 2019 03:40pm)

I think it's probably much more comfortable to side with the strong pro-israel lobby than the palestinian one...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_lobby_in_the_United_Kingdom

Founded in 1957, Labour Friends of Israel is a group within the Labour Party which in 2003 described itself as a "lobby group working within the Labour Party to promote the State of Israel".[14] On its present website it describes itself as seeking "to promote a strong bilateral relationship between Britain and Israel."[15] It organizes visits British politicians to visit Israel and meet with Israeli politicians and advocates on Israel's behalf among Labour Party members.[16] Both Labour Party Prime Ministers Tony Blair (1997–2007) and Gordon Brown (2007-2010) have been members of Labour Friends of Israel,[17][18] and the former leader of the Labour Party (Ed Miliband) has described himself as a "friend of Israel".[19]
However, current Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has been vocal on Middle East foreign policy. He is a member of the Palestine Solidarity Campaign, regularly campaigning against conflict in Gaza and what the organisation considers to be apartheid in Israel.[20] Corbyn has also supported boycotting and sanctioning arms dealings in Israel, saying on the Electronic Intifada: "I think we have to push robustly for the limitation of arms supplies ... Israel is after all facing an investigation ... for war crimes, [at the International Criminal Court] as indeed are the Hamas forces on a much different or lesser scale."

ALSO, Corbyn is actually pro-Brexit (while those quiters MPs are NOT) and this is an anomaly, any left wing party would tends to be pro-stay.

I think you are over-reacting on the "antisemitic" argument. Mr Corbyn is trying to keep his populist left-wing pro-brexit voters, (who are basically the same kind than the poor people of Kentucky who voted Trump) and it does not help him...

So the cause is 50/50 anti-israel/pro-brexit ... Simply.
+ few bullies if you want, why not, but this is not the most important point.

Quote (dro94 @ 19 Feb 2019 19:11)

It's not 50/50 really, more like 35/35 including the bullying. Then the other 30% is a) National Security - a big issue for many Labour MP's that support Trident, unlike Corbyn that wants to get rid of our nuclear arsenal; b. Populist far left policies and generally anti-business sentiments; c) Poor leadership from Corbyn. He doesn't include many of the centrist Labour MP's in his shadow cabinet which annoyed many of them.

If I was an MP I wouldn't consider myself a 'friend' of Israel, but I'd at least respect its right to exist. I wouldn't support divestment and sanctions simply for their existence, only for actual violations of international law. You're probably wondering why a gentile like myself posts about this topic often in here, but the reality is it's
symptomatic of a deep anger and hatred in politics that was far less pervasive even 5 years ago. On the left wing it's the return of the hard left marxist thought and anti-semitism, on the right it's the same old hatred and xenophobia of non-whites.

Quote (dro94 @ Feb 19 2019 07:11pm)

It's not 50/50 really, more like 35/35 including the bullying. Then the other 30% is a) National Security - a big issue for many Labour MP's that support Trident, unlike Corbyn that wants to get rid of our nuclear arsenal; b. Populist far left policies and generally anti-business sentiments; c) Poor leadership from Corbyn. He doesn't include many of the centrist Labour MP's in his shadow cabinet which annoyed many of them.

If I was an MP I wouldn't consider myself a 'friend' of Israel, but I'd at least respect its right to exist. I wouldn't support divestment and sanctions simply for their existence, only for actual violations of international law. You're probably wondering why a gentile like myself posts about this topic often in here, but the reality is it's symptomatic of a deep anger and hatred in politics that was far less pervasive even 5 years ago. On the left wing it's the return of the hard left marxist thought and anti-semitism, on the right it's the same old hatred and xenophobia of non-whites.

Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Feb 19 2019 07:34pm)

Violations of international laws ? We have this too...

Israeli régime violates the basic human rights of the Palestinians by impeding the liberty of movement of the inhabitants of the Occupied Palestinian Territory (with the exception of Israeli citizens) and their exercise of the right to work, to health, to education and to an adequate standard of living.

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements#International_Court_of_Justice)


and about xenophobia ...

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-44881554

So this is why i'm tunning it down on weaponizing the "anti-semitism" (which is mostly anti-Israel IMO and cannot be totally rejected)



For this Trident story... Are you sure he really want to "remove" all your nuclear weapons, abruptly ?

I hope that you aren't also weaponizing his stance for multilateral denuclearization ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NWt3rS27vzY


Once again, i think you exaggerate, but this is political discussion after all...

Quote (Knoppie @ Feb 19 2019 07:37pm)

Does Palestine have a right to co-exist in that argument ?

From most of what I've seen that's more Corbyn's stance, rather than not respecting Israel's right to exist.

Quote (dro94 @ 19 Feb 2019 20:00)

Israel deserve some sanctions for their violations of international law, such as their expansion on the West Bank. I've never denied that. One of the main issues with the left wing critique of Israel is that they hold it to a standard that no other country is held to. A so called Apartheid state that's also the only religiously diverse country in the Middle East with democracy, freedom of religion and expression. I do believe they do need a more left wing government which should reduce the animosity towards them from the outside world, but they're also surrounded by hostile states that want to kill them, so people are afraid.

Corbyn wants to scrap the Trident nuclear program, which constitutes our whole nuclear arsenal. So yes, he does. The point about multilateral vs unilateral is just wordplay from Corbyn because he voted to not renew Trident despite no agreements from our friends over in Russia and North Korea to scrap their nuclear programs too.



Yes, there needs to be a two state solution.

Oh really, is it Corbyn's stance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ARelZMMqw

Quote (Knoppie @ Feb 19 2019 11:37am)

Does Palestine have a right to co-exist in that argument ?

From most of what I've seen that's more Corbyn's stance, rather than not respecting Israel's right to exist.

Quote (dro94 @ Feb 19 2019 08:00pm)

Yes, there needs to be a two state solution.

Oh really, is it Corbyn's stance?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-ARelZMMqw

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 19 2019 08:14pm)

My answer is no. They never did. Perhaps you should ALL brush up on your history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

Quote (Knoppie @ Feb 19 2019 12:22pm)

Lol.. Ok Bob

pat.jpg

Quote (InsaneBobb @ Feb 19 2019 08:32pm)

The very fact that you cannot debate my words shows your lack of both intelligence and argument. Perhaps you'd have done better to refrain from posting.

When you brush up on both your history and your current events, perhaps we'll speak again. In the meantime, I'd suggest that you look into the Palestinian Authority paying lifetime stipends to the families of any Jihadist who successfully kills an Israeli or even unaffiliated Jew withing the Israeli territories. :)