You know that since 2014 the ukraine has to fight russian "separatists" aka regular army in those regions? Every defensive move was used for propaganda that ukraine kills their own people to have a reason for invasion.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 2 2024 02:42am

What's a "defensive move"?

when you attempt to break my nose and i'm quicker and punch in your teeth first.
Then you go cry to your people how you were bullied to justify your next attack.

This post was edited by BaHgerAUT on Feb 2 2024 04:13am

So if you say I'm planning to "break your nose 8 years from now" it justifies your preemptive one-sided shelling of my border teeth for most of a decade, and then when I finally bare those teeth and respond 8 years removed that's not a 'defensive move'

dumb allegories aside, its pretty clear the status quo ante was peace under a unified Ukrainian democracy that was run by the party of regions, favoring Russia, and the aggressive move that broke the country was a western backed coup d'etat that overthrew that democracy and led to slow burning civil war. Can't throw the first stone and then claim you're just defending sovereign territorial integrity when the folks you disenfranchised vote democratically to secede

This is false and you know it.

So this is the fairy tale forum now

Which part of history do you want to rewrite today?
If you're going back farther than the 2016 election you can write in Hillary as the president

You just wrote Page 1 of "5 made up reasons for a full scale invasion"

Simple question, which part of recent and well documented history that was plainly seen by the whole world, do you want to deny?

Ukraine was at peace in the status quo ante, the majority government leaned pro-Russian as it represented the ethnic Russian eastern oblasts, and was overthrown by force in the maidan coup, the CIA personally handpicked the vichy regime to replace it and used gangs of actual Nazis to round up and imprison/assassinate political opposition, journalists, dissidents on social media and orthodox clergy. The opposition was banned, the government seized control of the press and TV, bogus elections were held with the eastern oblasts disenfranchised, and under the auspices of Putin's little green men they voted to secede and fold into Russia

Which part do you want to rewrite to cast the nazi war criminals as the good guys all along?

Not even your fairy tale justifies sending close to 1m people to death. Even russia is tired of communicating those fairy tales by now.