Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 2 2023 01:09am)

Where exactly are you seeing a contradiction? If both Russia and the West take an economic hit of say one trillion dollars, Russia will be affected far more because a hit of this size represents 60% of their annual GDP while it only represents 6.2% of the EU's GDP.

Your entire logic only pans out if the "pain point" (amount of economic suffering that's necessary to drive the commoners to the streets in protest against this war) is something like 10 times higher in Russia than in the EU. Yes, the Russian people are more committed and willing to sacrifice for the Ukranian cause than the people in the West, but most definitely not to such a lopsided degree. This entire thing could only have worked for Putin if Europe had gotten into a proper gas shortage without his supplies, triggering economic chain reactions across entire industries etc. pp.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 2 2023 02:12pm)

Imagine using Iran as example of you well your economy will cope with sanctions.

Talk about under promising and over delivering :rofl:

Quote (babun1024 @ Feb 2 2023 01:30pm)

Iran is another one of those revolutions instigated by the west then left alone without any support leading to an islamic state. Iran, China, India and Italy are the places with the most amount of culture you can find in the world. You might see everything through a 200 year old glasses but history of civilization is much older, like much older. Most of the time, China reigned supreme. All mice found around the world can be traced back to a mice family in India from 10000y ago. No matter what the power struggles are or how weak they're at the moment, those cultures always absorb, improve and prevail. Visit some historical sites, museums in Italy, talk to people there and be amazed how backwards we are in terms of culture. And no, money alone can't buy it.
The US is falling apart by the way, the EU will follow.

Quote (babun1024 @ Feb 2 2023 01:25pm)

That's not how it works. The more you have, the more you lose. The less you have, the less you lose. The bottom line is always food, water, housing. I don't think Russia is ever going to have problems with food, water or housing.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 2 2023 02:58pm)

Right... And by falling apart you mean the highest living standards of anywhere, ever in recorded history?

Its all relative.



I think what he is saying is Russia's economy is brutally undiversified. Sure the gas station might sell drinks and snacks, but when 60% of your state budget comes from selling gas/oil.
Thats a problem.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Feb 2 2023 02:12pm)

Imagine using Iran as example of you well your economy will cope with sanctions.

Talk about under promising and over delivering :rofl:

Quote (Djunior @ Feb 2 2023 01:39pm)

but they find ways around the sanctions just like Iran

Quote (Djunior @ 2 Feb 2023 13:39)

The EU is being hit harder (trillions) due to much larger economies and much larger populations like you said yourself in a previous post. You cannot possibly inflict that same kind of damage on the small Russian economy.

Bolded: Sure, the sanctions are hurting Russia but they find ways around the sanctions just like Iran, sanctions are not going to stop Russia.

Quote (babun1024 @ 2 Feb 2023 14:25)

That's not how it works. The more you have, the more you lose. The less you have, the less you lose. The bottom line is always food, water, housing. I don't think Russia is ever going to have problems with food, water or housing.

Quote (babun1024 @ 2 Feb 2023 14:30)

Iran is another one of those revolutions instigated by the west then left alone without any support leading to an islamic state.

Quote

Iran, China, India and Italy are the places with the most amount of culture you can find in the world.[...] No matter what the power struggles are or how weak they're at the moment, those cultures always absorb, improve and prevail.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 2 2023 03:06pm)

This is not how this works. The EU is not automatically being hit harder (in absolute terms!) just because its economy is bigger. It might well be, but it's not a given.


For the record: I'm not a fan of the economic war the West has unleashed on Russia, and the energy sanctions in particular were just moronic. This does not, however, imply that Russia will come out unscathed, that Europe will be economically ruined, that Russia is outright "winning" the economic war or whatever else the Kremlin talking point of the day is.

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No sane person ever claimed that Russia will be so ruined that their people will end up literally starving on the streets. :rolleyes:
Also, if there's one lesson history told us, it's that the weak are hit harder by crises than the strong. There definitely is no automatism that you lose more the more you have.

To name just one example, look at the way the West was able to flex its financial muscle to buy up LNG from around the world and thus mitigate the impact of Russia closing the gas tap. Because we were strong, we were able to soften the impact on ourself and force weaker nations (Sri Lanka, Pakistan etc.) to shoulder some of the burden which was meant for us. Or look at how low skill workers are the first to be laid off during a recession and the last ones to be rehired once the recession is over.

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The West didn't instigate the Iranian revolution. The West installed a corrupt ruler to do his bidding (the Shah) which led to the revolution, so it carries a hefty amount of moral guilt. But still, it was the Iranian people themselves who either genuinely supported the theocratic extremism of Khomeini, or got duped by him like all those female students who were ardent supporters of the revolution until they realized that the new regime would turn them into oppressed second-class citizens.



That's not actually true. China suffered from centuries of cultural and technological stagnation until they were hopelessly lagging behind the Western world, followed by 2 centuries of decline, chaos, misery and humiliation. In 1950, China was one of the poorest nations on the entire planet, worse off than many African nations. The reason China was able to bounce back is their sheer size and their embrace of market-based economics, not some "inherent cultural strength". Italy hasn't been on top of Europe or the world for over 1800 years.