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Sep 26 2019 08:28am
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 26 2019 06:37am)
If Trump was engaged in a campaign to pressure the Ukrainians, and he was incautious enough to do it right out in the open in front of dozens of people looped into this call, why wouldn't he actually use the leverage of foreign aid that Joe Biden had?
https://twitter.com/kenvogel/status/1176882766597767168

The whole 'quid pro quo / coercion' angle seems to be mostly giving way as people instead say the real scandal is trump just asking them to look into Biden, 'pressure' or not.
But that begs the question- why wouldn't he use the obvious pressure? The same one Joe Biden famously deployed, which is what Trump knows is at issue?


It seems to be that to believe in a nefarious intent of coercion, you have to simultaneously believe Trump was willing to talk about Biden to Ukraine right on this phone call with large numbers of people looped in- yet was clever enough to avoid directly talking about the foreign aid and instead left it as an implicit and inferred threat. And left it secret, making it unknowable to the Ukrainians, so they couldn't even know they were being threatened. Oof



Narcissism is the word that describes this behavior.
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Sep 26 2019 08:30am
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Sep 26 2019 08:31am
Quote (thesnipa @ 26 Sep 2019 10:30)




imagine being this brazen and then being like 'lol nothing happened'

:rofl:
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Sep 26 2019 08:38am
Quote (excellence @ Sep 26 2019 09:31am)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXA--dj2-CY

imagine being this brazen and then being like 'lol nothing happened'

:rofl:


it can be summed up as this i'd say:

"the prosecutor is corrupt, and the corruption that finally caused me to take action was him digging into my son's personal business"
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Sep 26 2019 08:42am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 26 2019 09:38am)
it can be summed up as this i'd say:

"the prosecutor is corrupt, and the corruption that finally caused me to take action was him digging into my son's personal business"


in the overarching ukraine geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, everyone was corrupt, and western-aligned officials were investigating corruption by russian-aligned officials and vice versa.
I think in one sense you could say that given that appreciation, Hunter Biden being investigated was 'one of' the reasons to get Biden to take action, and we have to speculate how much was personal and how much geopolitical. But its clear enough from the geopolitical perspective that they wanted to replace an anti-western prosecutor with a pro-western prosecutor that would overlook western corruption and root out russian corruption.
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Sep 26 2019 08:47am
Quote (Goomshill @ Sep 26 2019 09:42am)
in the overarching ukraine geopolitical conflict between the US and Russia, everyone was corrupt, and western-aligned officials were investigating corruption by russian-aligned officials and vice versa.
I think in one sense you could say that given that appreciation, Hunter Biden being investigated was 'one of' the reasons to get Biden to take action, and we have to speculate how much was personal and how much geopolitical. But its clear enough from the geopolitical perspective that they wanted to replace an anti-western prosecutor with a pro-western prosecutor that would overlook western corruption and root out russian corruption.


and with Ukraine looking to kowtow to American demands for aid packages instances of American demands should be looked into for personal motivations. these types of regime shakeups have people enriching themselves in the turmoil every time. Joe's family seems to be a constant source of issues for him, he's clearly a family man with a flawed family that causes him to make some snafus.
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Sep 26 2019 08:54am
Sucks Ukrainians fought for freedom in the Orange Revolution only to be sold out by corrupt politicians.

They have a comedian in power there. We have a reality TV star. They can synergize.
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Sep 26 2019 09:15am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 26 2019 10:38am)
it can be summed up as this i'd say:

"the prosecutor is corrupt, and the corruption that finally caused me to take action was him digging into my son's personal business"


I think the reporting disputes that, but I'm not sure it would change anyone's mind if I posted examples.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 26 2019 09:15am
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Sep 26 2019 09:22am
Idk if it's been posted yet, but the full whistleblower complaint:

https://intelligence.house.gov/uploadedfiles/20190812_-_whistleblower_complaint_unclass.pdf
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Sep 26 2019 09:23am
Quote (IceMage @ Sep 26 2019 11:15am)
I think the reporting disputes that, but I'm not sure it would change anyone's mind if I posted examples.


Ian Bremmer put it best.

Hunter Biden was not being paid $50k / month to provide anything except access.
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