Trump horrible ethic violation will be even more exposed by big pubic hearings this week, it will be awesome. Who know, maybe he will pop up a vein and dig himself even more with some mistakes ?

The only goal here is to expose all the republican senators who will vote to protect Trump despite his criminal behavior.

Yep, democrats are already playing on taking-the-senate ground. Next step is Gulag for all trump supporters.

Ukraine will be conducting an investigation into the affairs of Ukraine corruption. something zelenskyy specifically stated he wishes to root out.
if biden was just lying on camera and didn't have the prosecutor fired by with-holding $1b in aid... then biden has nothing to worry about.

you do realize "russiagate" was (4?) investigations, including a "counter-intelligence" investigation.
these investigations worked closely with other countries. edit: some of them also started as trump was just a candidate.

we thought russiagate was all bs (and it was). but nearly "everyone" advocated for the investigation to finish fully and be released publicly.

This post was edited by tagged4nothing on Nov 10 2019 08:53pm

i'd welcome an investigation into not only biden's son, but this whole disgusting practice in general, those types of contracts and positions that people like hunter biden, ivanka trump, jared kushner... get without even the slightest bit of qualification for their jobs.

however, that's not relevant to the impeachment process. trump pressured foreign governments to help him with his election. that's illegal - and no amount of fingerpointing and bitching about the investigation can change that.

if i killed someone to expose how trump lifted the US ban against ZTE, in order to get several of ivanka's trademarks approved in china, i'd still be charged with murder. my illegal actions aren't magically justified by the crimes i allegedly wanted to expose.
not legally, and not even morally - considering how trump obviously couldn't care less about corruption in general, and this is purely about getting dirt on his political opponent.

This post was edited by fender on Nov 10 2019 09:33pm

Trump ASKED Ukraine to investigate the Bidens and that company.

No matter how many times you reword it...it won't change what happened.

fake news.


its NOT what happened sorry

"The other thing, there's a lot of talk about Biden's son, that Biden stopped the prosecution and a lot of people want to find out about that so whatever you can do with the Attorney General would be great. Biden went around bragging that he stopped the prosecution so if you can look into it ... It sounds horrible to me."

It's pretty obvious that there was no direct, court-tight quid pro quo in the phone call between Trump and Zelensky. But this doesnt rule out the possibility that such a quid pro quo was established by the US side through other channels - for example by withholding military aid and letting the Ukrainians know via lower level diplomats that the money is contingent on them investigating the Biden case.

So yes, the phone call transcript is pretty innocuous. But this alone cant disprove the accusation that he pressured them to do his bidding.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 11 2019 02:11am

from the evidence so far it seems to me that almost everyone involved had different ideas of what was going on and numerous factions were working independently and fudging the truth to support their narrative. Giuliani making offers of quid pro quos that Trump may or may not have authorized- while Trump is explicitly denying quid pro quos and telling his diplomats not to pursue them- while rogue IC operatives are seeking to undermine his Ukrainian policy entirely, and while democrats conspire with them to do it. And even between the diplomats, the Trump loyalists, establishment neocons/neolibs and conservatives were all going in different directions.

Oh, dont get me wrong, I'm also not convinced by the proof for the Democrats' theory of undue coercion of the Ukrainians that we have seen so far.
I'm just stressing that the innocuous phone call is not a proper argument to refute this theory of the case.

- first of all, it explicitly states on the first page that it's NOT a verbatim transcript. the actual transcript and recording of that 'perfect call' are hidden away on a server for top secret material. so if the trump team is so sure there's nothing bad about his call they should release them.

- secondly, you don't have to use the words 'i want you to do x, otherwise you won't get y' in order for a 'court-thight' quid pro quo to be established. the timing of the call and trump's team freezing the funds, as well as the obvious and not very subtle implications that even the polished 'transcript' documents, don't allow for any reasonable doubt - if you're not actively trying not to see it.

- EU ambassador sondland, a loyal trump toady, who donated a million dollars of his own money to trump's campaign and acted for weeks like he couldn't recall the administration putting any pressure on ukraine amended his testimony, acknowledging a quid pro quo.

- mick mulvaney admitted it was a quid pro quo on national tv.

- trump asked ukraine and china to investigate the bidens on national tv (yet another federal election law violation btw).

- there already was a history of trump withholding aid to pressure ukraine into doing personal favours for him: in 2018 he delayed the delivery of javelin anti-tank missiles to force then president poroshenko to stop cooperating with the mueller investigation into manafort's ukraine dealings (so much for donnie bonespur being really concerned with corruption in ukraine).


so again, the only way to describe that phone call "innocuous" is to be willfully ignorant of all of the above. the only way not to be convinced is when you never even had an open mind about it.

This post was edited by fender on Nov 11 2019 03:11am