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Nov 2 2019 06:55pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 2 2019 04:48pm)
Very true, although I would assume that the "Trump" brand would still have taken a huge hit, as would his golf resorts and such.

Well, he's an old, stubborn patriach of a business empire - is anyone surprised that he didnt want to give up control?


Even if Trump lost 99% of his wealth it would still be unethical to draw business from his position as president. That's literally the whole point of the Emoluments Clause, you can't enrich yourself using your position. It hasn't been an issue up to this point because all modern presidents have had a basic level of integrity and divested themselves.
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Nov 2 2019 07:01pm
good lord this thread devolved into just like many of the usual ones here

>drumpf is incompetence personified
>he made money off the presidency because he rigged the free market so people were forced to shop at his businesses

same people have zero issue with politicians definitely making bank hand-over-fist due to their entry into politics, their time in politics, and afterwards
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Nov 2 2019 07:02pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 3 Nov 2019 01:55)
Even if Trump lost 99% of his wealth it would still be unethical to draw business from his position as president. That's literally the whole point of the Emoluments Clause, you can't enrich yourself using your position. It hasn't been an issue up to this point because all modern presidents have had a basic level of integrity and divested themselves.


Divesting themselves was infinitely more easy (and less expensive) for all previous presidents than it would have been for Trump. ;)
He should still have tried his best, and he surely deserves blame for not even having tried.

It's still unfair to allege that the process of divesting would have been comparable between Obama the Harvard professor/Carter the peanut farmer and Trump the billionaire media and real estate mogul.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 2 2019 07:03pm
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Nov 2 2019 07:08pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 2 2019 08:02pm)
Divesting themselves was infinitely more easy (and less expensive) for all previous presidents than it would have been for Trump. ;)
He should still have tried his best, and he surely deserves blame for not even having tried.

It's still unfair to allege that the process of divesting would have been comparable between Obama the Harvard professor/Carter the peanut farmer and Trump the billionaire media and real estate mogul.


Sure, it wouldn't have been an easy process, but he had the entire time between getting the general nomination and getting elected to get the process in order. It's similar to his cabinet appointments, it took so long to get them through because he didn't do what other presidents did and start getting them ready when he got nominated. Honestly I don't think Trump had any inkling he was going to win right up until election night so he didn't actually prepare for winning.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Nov 2 2019 07:08pm
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Nov 2 2019 07:37pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ 3 Nov 2019 02:08)
Sure, it wouldn't have been an easy process, but he had the entire time between getting the general nomination and getting elected to get the process in order. It's similar to his cabinet appointments, it took so long to get them through because he didn't do what other presidents did and start getting them ready when he got nominated. Honestly I don't think Trump had any inkling he was going to win right up until election night so he didn't actually prepare for winning.


I think Ive read somewhere that his analytics team gave him a 20 or 25% chance of winning.
Either way, starting with the cabinet nominations the next day after election night would have been early enough for a professional, efficient transition team.

That's really the source of a lot of his issues throughout his presidency: that his administration is a mess on many fronts, with him being the epicenter of the chaos.
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Nov 2 2019 10:29pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 2 2019 06:37pm)
I think Ive read somewhere that his analytics team gave him a 20 or 25% chance of winning.
Either way, starting with the cabinet nominations the next day after election night would have been early enough for a professional, efficient transition team.

That's really the source of a lot of his issues throughout his presidency: that his administration is a mess on many fronts, with him being the epicenter of the chaos.


Let's hear a list of all the amazing things obama, bush and clinton did then? I've got all week to hear your hilarious response. Just because someone becomes the leader of a pile of shit, doesn't mean he can turn it into gold in 4-8 years. All the people in office from the last 3 decades preceeding him put the country in the shit hole state that it currently is. I'd love to see you or any of the other man children on here even balance a check book, let alone fix an economy that has been going downhill for 40+ years.

This post was edited by lelkek on Nov 2 2019 10:33pm
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Nov 3 2019 01:37am
Quote (lelkek @ Nov 3 2019 03:29pm)
Let's hear a list of all the amazing things obama, bush and clinton did then? I've got all week to hear your hilarious response. Just because someone becomes the leader of a pile of shit, doesn't mean he can turn it into gold in 4-8 years. All the people in office from the last 3 decades preceeding him put the country in the shit hole state that it currently is. I'd love to see you or any of the other man children on here even balance a check book, let alone fix an economy that has been going downhill for 40+ years.


1. Ended the 2008 Recession
In February 2009, Congress approved Obama's $787 billion economic stimulus package. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects.

The recession ended in July 2009 when GDP growth turned positive.

In just seven months, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act pumped $241.9 billion into the economy. That increased growth to a robust 3.9 percent rate by early 2010. By March 30, 2011, almost all ($633.5 billion) of the funds were spent.

2. Modernized the Auto Industry
Obama bailed out the U.S. auto industry on March 30, 2009. The federal government took over General Motors and Chrysler, saving three million jobs. It forced the companies to become more fuel efficient and therefore more globally competitive.

3. Received the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
On October 9, 2009, Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. The Committee lauded "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." He withdrew troops from Iraq in 2011. He reduced the U.S. nuclear warhead stockpile by 10 percent.

4. Reformed Health Care
On March 23, 2010, the Affordable Care Act revolutionized healthcare. By 2014, the economy benefited from having 95 percent of the population on health insurance.

The greater number of people receiving preventive care reduced the number of expensive visits to emergency rooms.

That slows the rise of health care costs for everyone. That's because Medicaid reimburses hospitals for emergency care. Those are the most significant of Obamacare's 10 advantages.

Why did health care need to be reformed? Rising costs threatened to take over the entire federal budget. It was also the no.1 cause of bankruptcies. In return, Americans received the worst health care in the developed world. It is the only one of 33 developed countries without universal health care.

President Donald Trump promised to "repeal and replace" Obamacare. As of October 2017, he has failed to pass any legislation. But he is weakening Obamacare even without repeal.

5. Regulated the Big Banks
In July 2010, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act improved regulation of eight areas that led to the financial crisis. The Consumer Financial Protection Agency reduced harmful practices of credit cards and mortgages. The Financial Stability Oversight Council regulated hedge funds and banks that became too big to fail. The "Volcker Rule" banned banks from risking losses with their depositors' money. Dodd-Frank clarified which agencies regulated which banks, stopping banks from cherry-picking their regulators.

Dodd-Frank directed the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. These regulated the riskiest derivatives, like credit default swaps and commodities futures. Dodd-Frank also asked the SEC to recommend how the credit rating agencies, like Moody's and Standard & Poor's, could be improved.

6. 2010 Tax Cuts
In December 2010, Obama and Congress agreed upon additional stimulus in the form of an $858 billion tax cut. It had three main components: a $350 billion extension of the Bush tax cuts, a $56 billion extension of unemployment benefits, and a $120 billion reduction in workers' payroll taxes. Businesses received $140 billion in tax cuts for capital improvements and $80 billion in research and development tax credits. The estate tax was exempted (up to $5 million), and there were additional credits for college tuition and children.

7. Eliminated bin Laden Threat and Withdrew Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan Wars
On May 1, 2011, Navy SEALs attacked the al-Qaida leader's compound in Pakistan and eliminated Osama bin Laden. Later that year, Obama withdrew troops from the Iraq War. Three years later, renewed threats from ISIS meant troops had to return. The Sunni-Shiite split within Islam means there may always be wars in the Middle East.

In 2014, Obama wound down the war in Afghanistan. Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan should have reduced annual military spending. At over $800 billion, it was the largest discretionary budget item and one of the leading causes of the budget deficit and national debt.

Instead, spending on the War on Terror remained higher than during the Bush administration.

8. Raised Fuel Efficiency Standards
On August 28, 2012, the Obama administration announced new fuel efficiency standards. He required cars and light trucks obtain 54.5 MPG by 2025. That would reduce oil consumption by 12 billion barrels, saving drivers $1.7 trillion. It would also reduce the damage of climate change by lowering greenhouse gases.

The Trump administration promised to roll back these standards. But California requires zero-emissions vehicles. Twelve other states adopted the mandate. Major automakers must build cars to meet stricter standards in the European Union and Asia.

9. Won 2012 Presidential Re-election
On November 6, 2012, Obama won a second term. Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney promised to repeal Obamacare and Dodd-Frank. Voters were not sure about eliminating health benefits and regulations against big banks. Romney failed to capture the country's imagination by not presenting a new vision for economic growth.

10. Reduced Carbon Emissions
Obama announced carbon reduction regulations in 2014. He enacted the Clean Power Plan in 2015. It reduces carbon dioxide emissions by 32 percent from 2005 levels by 2030. It did this by setting carbon reduction goals for the nation's power plants. To comply, power plants agreed to create 30 percent more renewable energy generation by 2030. It encourages carbon emissions trading by allowing states that emit less than the carbon cap to trade their surplus to states that emit more than the cap.

11. Nuclear Agreement With Iran
On July 14, 2015, Obama brokered a nuclear peace agreement with Iran. That meant Iran could not longer build a nuclear bomb in three months. Instead, it would take at least a year. In return, the United Nations lifted the economic sanctions it imposed in 2010. Trump is weakening the agreement to try and negotiate a better deal for the United States.

12. World's Largest Trade Agreement
On October 4, 2015, Obama's team negotiated the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It would have replaced NAFTA as the world's largest free-trade agreement. It would have removed tariffs between the United States and 11 other countries that border the Pacific Ocean. On January 23, 2017, Trump withdrew the United States from the agreement. The other countries are planning to continue the agreement anyway. Japan and the European Union are negotiating their own agreement.

Obama launched the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership between the United States and the European Union.

Obama's term ended before negotiations on the TTIP could be finalized. It would have been bigger than the TPP. President Trump has not made much progress on the TTIP.

13. International Climate Change Agreement
On December 12, 2015, Obama and 196 other countries announced the Paris Climate Agreement. Countries agreed to reduce carbon emissions and increase carbon trading. The goal is to limit global warming to 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial temperatures. Developed countries will contribute $100 billion a year to assist emerging markets. They bear the brunt of damage from climate change. They face increased typhoons, rising sea levels, and more severe droughts.

On October 5, 2016, enough countries ratified the agreement that it went into effect. At the 2016 G20 meeting, China and the United States agreed to ratify the agreement. These two countries are the world's largest emitters of greenhouse gases. On June 1, 2017, Trump announced the U.S. withdrawal from the agreement.

14. Third-Best Job Creator
Obama is the third-best job-creating president in U.S. history. His policies put 16 million people to work from the depths of the recession in December 2009 to the end of his term. That's because unemployment continued to rise even after the recession ended in July. It takes a few months of economic growth before businesses are confident enough to begin hiring again.
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Posts: 64,763
Joined: Oct 25 2006
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Nov 3 2019 01:40am
Quote (Plaguefear @ Nov 3 2019 02:37am)
1. Ended the 2008 Recession
In February 2009, Congress approved Obama's $787 billion economic stimulus package. It cut taxes, extended unemployment benefits, and funded public works projects.

The recession ended in July 2009 when GDP growth turned positive.

In just seven months, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act pumped $241.9 billion into the economy. That increased growth to a robust 3.9 percent rate by early 2010. By March 30, 2011, almost all ($633.5 billion) of the funds were spent.

2. Modernized the Auto Industry
Obama bailed out the U.S. auto industry on March 30, 2009. The federal government took over General Motors and Chrysler, saving three million jobs. It forced the companies to become more fuel efficient and therefore more globally competitive.

3. Received the 2009 Nobel Peace Prize
On October 9, 2009, Obama won the Nobel Peace Prize. The Committee lauded "his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples." He withdrew troops from Iraq in 2011. He reduced the U.S. nuclear warhead stockpile by 10 percent.

4. Reformed Health Care
On March 23, 2010, the Affordable Care Act revolutionized healthcare. By 2014, the economy benefited from having 95 percent of the population on health insurance.

The greater number of people receiving preventive care reduced the number of expensive visits to emergency rooms.

That slows the rise of health care costs for everyone. That's because Medicaid reimburses hospitals for emergency care. Those are the most significant of Obamacare's 10 advantages.

Why did health care need to be reformed? Rising costs threatened to take over the entire federal budget. It was also the no.1 cause of bankruptcies. In return, Americans received the worst health care in the developed world. It is the only one of 33 developed countries without universal health care.

President Donald Trump promised to "repeal and replace" Obamacare. As of October 2017, he has failed to pass any legislation. But he is weakening Obamacare even without repeal.

5. Regulated the Big Banks
In July 2010, the Dodd-Frank Wall Street Reform Act improved regulation of eight areas that led to the financial crisis. The Consumer Financial Protection Agency reduced harmful practices of credit cards and mortgages. The Financial Stability Oversight Council regulated hedge funds and banks that became too big to fail. The "Volcker Rule" banned banks from risking losses with their depositors' money. Dodd-Frank clarified which agencies regulated which banks, stopping banks from cherry-picking their regulators.

Dodd-Frank directed the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Commodity Futures Trading Commission. These regulated the riskiest derivatives, like credit default swaps and commodities futures. Dodd-Frank also asked the SEC to recommend how the credit rating agencies, like Moody's and Standard & Poor's, could be improved.

6. 2010 Tax Cuts
In December 2010, Obama and Congress agreed upon additional stimulus in the form of an $858 billion tax cut. It had three main components: a $350 billion extension of the Bush tax cuts, a $56 billion extension of unemployment benefits, and a $120 billion reduction in workers' payroll taxes. Businesses received $140 billion in tax cuts for capital improvements and $80 billion in research and development tax credits. The estate tax was exempted (up to $5 million), and there were additional credits for college tuition and children.

7. Eliminated bin Laden Threat and Withdrew Troops from Iraq and Afghanistan Wars
On May 1, 2011, Navy SEALs attacked the al-Qaida leader's compound in Pakistan and eliminated Osama bin Laden. Later that year, Obama withdrew troops from the Iraq War. Three years later, renewed threats from ISIS meant troops had to return. The Sunni-Shiite split within Islam means there may always be wars in the Middle East.

In 2014, Obama wound down the war in Afghanistan. Ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan should have reduced annual military spending. At over $800 billion, it was the largest discretionary budget item and one of the leading causes of the budget deficit and national debt.

Instead, spending on the War on Terror remained higher than during the Bush administration.

8. Raised Fuel Efficiency Standards
On August 28, 2012, the Obama administration announced new fuel efficiency standards. He required cars and light trucks obtain 54.5 MPG by 2025. That would reduce oil consumption by 12 billion barrels, saving drivers $1.7 trillion. It would also reduce the damage of climate change by lowering greenhouse gases.

The Trump administration promised to roll back these standards. But California requires zero-emissions vehicles. Twelve other states adopted the mandate. Major automakers must build cars to meet stricter standards in the European Union and Asia.

9. Won 2012 Presidential Re-election
On November 6, 2012, Obama won a second term. Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney promised to repeal Obamacare and Dodd-Frank. Voters were not sure about eliminating health benefits and regulations against big banks. Romney failed to capture the country's imagination by not presenting a new vision for economic growth.

10. Reduced Carbon Emissions
Obama announced carbon reduction regulations in 2014. He enacted the Clean Power Plan in 2015. It reduces carbon dioxide emissions by 32 percent from 2005 levels by 2030. It did this by setting carbon reduction goals for the nation's power plants. To comply, power plants agreed to create 30 percent more renewable energy generation by 2030. It encourages carbon emissions trading by allowing states that emit less than the carbon cap to trade their surplus to states that emit more than the cap.

11. Nuclear Agreement With Iran
On July 14, 2015, Obama brokered a nuclear peace agreement with Iran. That meant Iran could not longer build a nuclear bomb in three months. Instead, it would take at least a year. In return, the United Nations lifted the economic sanctions it imposed in 2010. Trump is weakening the agreement to try and negotiate a better deal for the United States.

12. World's Largest Trade Agreement
On October 4, 2015, Obama's team negotiated the Trans-Pacific Partnership. It would have replaced NAFTA as the world's largest free-trade agreement. It would have removed tariffs between the United States and 11 other countries that border the Pacific Ocean. On January 23, 2017, Trump withdrew the United States from the agreement. The other countries are planning to continue the agreement anyway. Japan and the European Union are negotiating their own agreement.

Obama launched the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership between the United States and the European Union.

Obama's term ended before negotiations on the TTIP could be finalized. It would have been bigger than the TPP. President Trump has not made much progress on the TTIP.

13. International Climate Change Agreement
On December 12, 2015, Obama and 196 other countries announced the Paris Climate Agreement. Countries agreed to reduce carbon emissions and increase carbon trading. The goal is to limit global warming to 2 degrees Celsius above pre-industrial temperatures. Developed countries will contribute $100 billion a year to assist emerging markets. They bear the brunt of damage from climate change. They face increased typhoons, rising sea levels, and more severe droughts.

On October 5, 2016, enough countries ratified the agreement that it went into effect. At the 2016 G20 meeting, China and the United States agreed to ratify the agreement. These two countries are the world's largest emitters of greenhouse gases. On June 1, 2017, Trump announced the U.S. withdrawal from the agreement.

14. Third-Best Job Creator
Obama is the third-best job-creating president in U.S. history. His policies put 16 million people to work from the depths of the recession in December 2009 to the end of his term. That's because unemployment continued to rise even after the recession ended in July. It takes a few months of economic growth before businesses are confident enough to begin hiring again.


Yeah obama was good.

100% he will be in top half of presidents. 75% chance he stays in top quarter
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Nov 3 2019 03:33pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Nov 2 2019 11:40pm)
Yeah obama was good.

100% he will be in top half of presidents. 75% chance he stays in top quarter


Do you like NAFTA and the TPA?

Half the things in that list seemed questionable, but especially that point
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Posts: 49,893
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Nov 3 2019 03:43pm
Quote (ssdrmstre @ Nov 4 2019 08:33am)
Do you like NAFTA and the TPA?

Half the things in that list seemed questionable, but especially that point


It was good for America for sure.
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