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Sep 4 2014 03:08pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Sep 4 2014 05:00pm)
At the end of the day, buying into creationism doesn't really impact someone's practical knowledge.


Having a completely incorrect belief about the source of our physiology, including understanding why we think and behave the way we do is EXTREMELY impactful on a person's practical knowledge, almost as much as somebody who thinks disease comes from demons.

Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Sep 4 2014 05:00pm)
Furthermore, I'd argue that it doesn't really impact scientific knowledge. Not believing in evolution doesn't diminish someone's ability to engage in scientific work.


Oh fuck please tell me you're joking.
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Sep 4 2014 03:15pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Sep 4 2014 04:00pm)
At the end of the day, buying into creationism doesn't really impact someone's practical knowledge.

Furthermore, I'd argue that it doesn't really impact scientific knowledge. Not believing in evolution doesn't diminish someone's ability to engage in scientific work. It runs contrary, sure, but it doesn't really impact how someone could learn chemistry, physics, engineering, things of this nature. And it says nothing about what people learn and know about subjects like law, mathematics, human history, etc.


it's not like we have people opposing stem cell research or anything
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Sep 4 2014 03:23pm
Quote (duffman316 @ Sep 4 2014 01:15pm)
it's not like we have people opposing stem cell research or anything


That doesn't have to do with creationism. That has to do with ideas concerning abortion.

I know it's very difficult to try and separate motives for political actors who you have no interest in learning about. Non-creationists can oppose stem cell research and creationists can go ahead an support it. They are only incidentally related.
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Sep 4 2014 03:40pm
Quote (Skinned @ Sep 4 2014 07:13pm)
The world is most shaped by Marxism and that is a materialistic determinist worldview.

imo Marx isn't simplistically deterministic which is best illustrated by his famous example of the builder and the bee. while humans subjectively bear the idealistic form of material relationships (ideology), they're also capable of acting within these limits and changing them via genuine choices (the concept of praxis). it is important to note that the material and the ideological aren't simply dictated by one, but that the process is a dialectical one.
humans make their own history not on their own conditions, but by those dictated by history.
Lenin's / the USSR's line has ruined Marx for many a person :P

Quote (Skinned @ Sep 4 2014 08:01pm)
I'm learning logic now, so its importance will soon become apparent I'm sure :)

i'm learning some basic formal logic as well, got gifted some books with introductory stuff so i thought "why the hell not". i'm too dim for this shit :D
Quote (Vivienne @ Sep 4 2014 07:17pm)
I would say that the scientific method can be applied to just about anything and will eventually yield the best possible explanation for whatever phenomena it is applied to. It is as close to actual knowledge and truth as we will ever get. What other method is there? Speculation? Hearsay?

historical method and comparative method spring to my mind and i'm sure that a lot of fields have their methods with which they work
phenomenology rules at qualia

Quote (Voyaging @ Sep 5 2014 12:50am)
Phenomenal binding is really the biggest mystery in the universe in any physicalist or semi-physicalist worldview.

that is only if we presume that advocates of hardline scientism and extreme physicalism aren't in fact p-zombies, which would explain quite the bit :rofl:

This post was edited by Gastly on Sep 4 2014 04:02pm
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Sep 4 2014 03:50pm
Quote (Gastly @ Sep 4 2014 05:40pm)
phenomenology rules at qualia


Yes as far as I can tell this is the case for the foreseeable future, though we should be able to pinpoint with some accuracy the neural correlates of particular qualia with the information we gain once Obama's BRAIN Initiative is finished.

Not that this actually describes the qualia in question, mind you. Phenomenal binding is really the biggest mystery in the universe in any physicalist or semi-physicalist worldview.

I also see exploration of psychedelia, particularly in the future when we have developed advanced neural modification technology, as offering extreme advances in phenomenological understanding.

This post was edited by Voyaging on Sep 4 2014 03:52pm
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Sep 4 2014 04:21pm
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In future, its teaching will be confined to religious education classes, as long as it is not presented as a valid alternative to established scientific theory.


So basically what you're saying is England will give I.D. as much if not more coverage than...90% of the U.S., Texas excepted.
/e
Skinned beating me to the punch per usual :P

Quote (Skinned @ Sep 4 2014 09:00am)
Where it is taught here:

http://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--XRjg5hdY--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/19enp605k7x5mpng.png

Green is pubic, orange is private, red where it is the main curriculum.

/e

Quote (Voyaging @ Sep 4 2014 02:08pm)
Having a completely incorrect belief about the source of our physiology, including understanding why we think and behave the way we do is EXTREMELY impactful on a person's practical knowledge, almost as much as somebody who thinks disease comes from demons.



Oh fuck please tell me you're joking.


Belief in I.D. doesn't really impact knowledge of particle physics. It's just a concern in biological/life sciences. And somewhat troubling.

This post was edited by BardOfXiix on Sep 4 2014 04:22pm
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Sep 4 2014 04:25pm
I never understood why people want creationism to be taught in science class when it isn't a scientific belief.
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Sep 4 2014 04:36pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Sep 4 2014 05:23pm)
Non-creationists can oppose stem cell research and creationists can go ahead an support it.


I think the opposite is true.

Creationist are total nut jobs and don't understand that evolution can not only be proven,

Its actually affecting every living thing - including plants and genes and viruses ,

so its not just whether we were made from mud or evolved from fish

because that truth doesn't matter one bit.

People need to learn to see with their eyes and not with their mind , which sounds like common

sense but its much more difficult than you would think.

This post was edited by card_sultan on Sep 4 2014 04:37pm
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Sep 4 2014 04:44pm
Quote (Mastersam93 @ Sep 4 2014 05:25pm)
I never understood why people want creationism to be taught in science class when it isn't a scientific belief.


Its not even that, they only want the christian myth taught in school. While I believe only science should be taught in science class, I'm fine with having a bible and mythology class separate and learning about other dogmas and the bible as literature.

If you give the fundies their creationism, they'd still flip their lid if you were teaching another cultures creation myths. Call a spade a spade, they want to proselytize Christianity.

P’an Ku,and the cosmic egg story from china.

Yanomamo Sanema’s Moonblood : One story has Peribo, the Moon, eating the souls of children. This angered Suharina, who shot Peribo in the belly with an arrow. His blood spilled to the earth, forming puddles from which mortal men arose. The most belligerent human beings were created where large amounts of blood fell, and where only a few drops fell, less violent men were born.

Brahma (the Creator), Vishnu (the Preserver), and Shiva (the Destroyer)

The Navajo’s Four Worlds

Scandinavia’s Fire Demons And Frost Giants

Izanagi and Izanami from Japan

The Aborigines’ Rainbow Serpent

Egypt’s Divine Semen

and several more :
http://listverse.com/2014/01/11/10-creation-myths-as-strange-as-the-bible/



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Sep 4 2014 04:48pm
Science is just another ideological frame. It is not inherently more or less superior to other modes of existence.
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