Quote (Voyaging @ 9 Aug 2014 19:42)

Ok, that's reasonable, but I don't think that at all conflicts with what I'm saying.



Yes, even modestly reduced suffering would make for a superior world, though I will avoid using your unnecessary religious attacks

Quote

"When you say there's too much evil in this world you assume there's good. When you assume there's good, you assume there's such a thing as a moral law on the basis of which to differentiate between good and evil. But if you assume a moral law, you must posit a moral Law Giver, but that's Who you're trying to disprove and not prove. Because if there's no moral Law Giver, there's no moral law. If there's no moral law, there's no good. If there's no good, there's no evil. What is your question?"

Quote (HighschoolTurd @ Aug 10 2014 12:34am)

Well you're saying that God could have created a world where there is no evil right? And that EVIL doesn't have to exist at all in this world because we don't have to have it right?

Quote (inkanddagger @ 10 Aug 2014 07:59)

Nowhere in scripture will you find God claiming perfection, omniscience, or omnipotence. Jehovah was part of the creation story, but never claims to be the sole creator, and in fact the scripture itself indicates there were multiple creators. But Jehovah is most intricately intertwined in the Jewish creation story in Genesis Chapter 2. And Jehovah is vying for control of the entire world above all other Gods. The Creators did not restrict free will, and in fact free will seems to exist because of the multiple Creators needing vindication by their creation. So it goes that Jehovah has armed His people against the rest of creation in order to claim the prize of victory above all other Creators.

Read the Bible, study it out, you'll find this to be 100% true.

Quote (HighschoolTurd @ 10 Aug 2014 03:28)

You cannot have good without evil.

Quote (HighschoolTurd @ Aug 9 2014 11:34pm)

Well you're saying that God could have created a world where there is no evil right? And that EVIL doesn't have to exist at all in this world because we don't have to have it right?

That works in a hypothetical, but Voyaging, accept reality man. We are here right now in this world and there is no way escaping it.

A Good quote from Ravi Zacharias:

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 9 2014 09:42pm)

Yes, even modestly reduced suffering would make for a superior world, though I will avoid using your unnecessary religious attacks

Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ Aug 8 2014 06:24pm)

Is Walt Disney willing to prevent anime , but not able ? Then he is not a a very good cartoonist .
Is he able , but not willing ? Then he is secretly half Japanese .
Is he both able and willing ? Then whence cometh hentai ?
Is he neither able nor willing ? Then why call him Walt Disney ?

Quote (Voyaging @ Aug 9 2014 01:29pm)

I of course am not going to change your mind and I hope my responses do not come across as attacks on your faith (they certainly aren't).

My point is that God could've created a world with all the goods that are in this one, including love, compassion, goodness, joy, and free will, without the deep, nasty suffering that for hundreds of billions of sentient beings on this planet are the only life they know. As long as our waking consciousness is based on gradients of experience (meaning certain states may be better or worse than others), moral behavior is still just as possible. We can still choose to be good or evil in a world without suffering, or at the very least in a world with less than the immense amount we face in this one.

And yes, of course the natural response is going to be that I shouldn't expect to fathom God's reasons for creating this world; I think otherwise since I have moral understanding and I realize that the immense suffering present in this world is incompatible with an omnibenevolent creator (who would've designed the world to be filled with such intense agony! He's basically a glorified torture artist).

But again, I don't expect to convince anyone.

Quote (duffman316 @ Aug 9 2014 07:15pm)

that free will nonsense is bs

you're predisposed to think and act a certain way