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May 19 2010 07:43pm
Quote (Santara @ May 20 2010 01:39am)
It's not just racism, it's "genusism." Of course humans are better than animals. Until an animal figures out a way to build cars and lock up people in zoos, it will continue to be this way.


That's not showing that humans are better than animals, that just showing that most animals are not human and don't have a aptitude for things we do.
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May 19 2010 07:56pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 20 2010 01:08am)
With all of the land and resources we use for animals we could use on ourselves. It takes 16 pounds of grain to make one pound of beef.  In tracking food animal production from the feed through to the dinner table, the inefficiencies of meat, milk and egg production range from a 4:1 energy input to protein output ratio up to 54:1. [3] The result is that producing animal-based food is typically much less efficient than the harvesting of grains, vegetables, legumes, seeds and fruits for direct human consumption. [3] People are cutting down whole forests just for pasture for cattle when it could be used on farmland or even not cut down. Animals fed on grain need more water than grain crops. "According to a 2006 report by the Livestock, Environment And Development Initiative, the livestock industry is one of the largest contributors to environmental degradation worldwide, and modern practices of raising animals for food contributes on a "massive scale" to air and water pollution, land degradation, climate change, and loss of biodiversity. " In other words the whole livestock industry is a waste.


@ the bolded: There are many other sources of protein that don't have to do with meat. You just want to believe that meat is necessary when it's not.  THe quality of your life will be just fine if you take the right supplements and get the right nutrition as anyone should do, eating meat or not.

You can do as you damn well please, but realize that you're unnecessarily taking lives of sentient beings, who are sentient just like you. You ever heard of the golden rule? I'm sure you wouldn't feel so great if I decided I could eat you if I damn well please.


No, there actually aren't many other sources of protein I can use, I need quick, available food with high protein / calorie ratios. Without milk products / meat, I'm boned. This is ignoring that the natural human diet has no need of supplements, and that in most cases natural diets are objectively preferable to supplement based ones.

No, your "in other words" is wrong.

1. Animal husbandry is often practiced on land unsuitable for farming.
2. Actual weight or caloric intake is irrelevant, the question is which diet is optimal for human survival and health.
3. You are attacking a way of life (eating meat) because of certain adverse effects a subgroup has on the planet. Expensive, healthily raised meat is no more damaging to the planet than you or I.
4. Even were the entire practice to be damaging to the planet, your argument disregards that eating meat is still healthier for the individual. I've had this argument with you before, humans are biologically predisposed to be omnivores, and yeh, that includes meat.

Golden Rule - I don't expect other species to accept or accommodate themselves to my presence, they eat and survive without regard to human life, all I ask is that I be left alone to do the same.

Animal rights activists discriminate against humans, they expect humanity to be held accountable to laws that animals (by their biology) cannot also be held to.

That's well and good for them, but I'll kill every last one of the bastards before they ever stop me from eating meat.


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May 19 2010 07:59pm
Quote (bogie160 @ May 19 2010 07:56pm)
No, there actually aren't many other sources of protein I can use, I need quick, available food with high protein / calorie ratios. Without milk products / meat, I'm boned. This is ignoring that the natural human diet has no need of supplements, and that in most cases natural diets are objectively preferable to supplement based ones.

No, your "in other words" is wrong.

1. Animal husbandry is often practiced on land unsuitable for farming.
2. Actual weight or caloric intake is irrelevant, the question is which diet is optimal for human survival and health.
3. You are attacking a way of life (eating meat) because of certain adverse effects a subgroup has on the planet. Expensive, healthily raised meat is no more damaging to the planet than you or I.
4. Even were the entire practice to be damaging to the planet, your argument disregards that eating meat is still healthier for the individual. I've had this argument with you before, humans are biologically predisposed to be omnivores, and yeh, that includes meat.

Golden Rule - I don't expect other species to accept or accommodate themselves to my presence, they eat and survive without regard to human life, all I ask is that I be left alone to do the same.

Animal rights activists discriminate against humans, they expect humanity to be held accountable to laws that animals (by their biology) cannot also be held to.

That's well and good for them, but I'll kill every last one of the bastards before they ever stop me from eating meat.


There really isn't a reason to dislike you, is there?
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May 19 2010 08:02pm
Quote (bogie160 @ 19 May 2010 20:56)
No, there actually aren't many other sources of protein I can use, I need quick, available food with high protein / calorie ratios. Without milk products / meat, I'm boned. This is ignoring that the natural human diet has no need of supplements, and that in most cases natural diets are objectively preferable to supplement based ones.

No, your "in other words" is wrong.


Unless you're a vegetarian and you get plenty of B12 in your diet naturally. Or you eat nutritional yeast, which contains B12.

And if you really need protein that fast, grab some seitan. ezpz.

You eat meat because you want to, not because of nutrition. Stop pretending that there's something inherently unhealthy about veggie/vegan diets.
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May 19 2010 08:36pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 19 2010 05:43pm)
That's not showing that humans are better than animals, that just showing that most animals are not human and don't have a aptitude for things we do.


That is why we're better, because we can do more.

On a side note:

Humans are better at two things than other animals, long distance running and rational thought.

Also to AiNedeSpelCzech, I agree. We eat meat because we want to. Since I value liberty, I would not want to conflict with what brings others joy.

This post was edited by PlasmaSnake101 on May 19 2010 08:37pm
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May 19 2010 08:56pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 19 2010 08:16pm)
So you're against game hunting? I'm glad that you have this stance, but I don't think you realize that killing animals for food is also unnecessary in today's society.


Are you still a vegetarian except when meat is served ?
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May 19 2010 09:00pm
Animals are not equal. Humans are the best animals.
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May 19 2010 09:10pm
Quote (AEtheric @ May 19 2010 07:35pm)
If humans are given rights then I believe that animals should be given rights, too.


By law animals do have some protection from instances such as animal cruelty, ect. But if you want to try to relate it to animal product consumption, I would have to say(imo ofc) that there is no law against consuming animals or animal products mainly because humans are omnivores and it is a natural thing to eat meat as well as vegetables/fruits. I do think that there should be more regulation in large scale farms where there exists cruel treatment towards animals to be consumed though...
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May 19 2010 09:13pm
Quote (Mezandria @ May 19 2010 11:10pm)
By law animals do have some protection from instances such as animal cruelty, ect. But if you want to try to relate it to animal product consumption, I would have to say(imo ofc) that there is no law against consuming animals or animal products mainly because humans are omnivores and it is a natural thing to eat meat as well as vegetables/fruits. I do think that there should be more regulation in large scale farms where there exists cruel treatment towards animals to be consumed though...


The bolded for common sense .

When evolution gives us teeth like a cow I'll switch to grass ; until then I will use my incisors for their intended purpose .
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May 19 2010 09:17pm
Quote (WidowMaKer_MK @ May 19 2010 11:13pm)
The bolded for common sense .

When evolution gives us teeth like a cow I'll switch to grass ; until then I will use my incisors for their intended purpose .


Yeah that about sums it up for me, though I would prefer to raise my own animals so I at least know that they had a decent life and not the cruel treatment that I've seen or heard about on many farms. :( Not currently possible for us atm but Cody and I are working on getting ourselves into a more self-sustainable lifestyle in the future. :D

I liked this person's quote-

Quote
There is much to be said for vegetarianism. I am at a loss to know why vegetarians cannot be content simply to say it, without taking the argument over a cliff.


lol I get so much shit from my mom every day from her trying to force me to become vegan again. But ofc I'm not sitting there trying to force meat down HER throat. ^_^

This post was edited by Mezandria on May 19 2010 09:22pm
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