Christianity Is A Lie And Bible Is Proof - Topic

Modulok2405

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#3041

Oct 20 2023 01:02am

Quote (TiStuff @ Oct 20 2023 08:54am)

your evidence of God

I dont have evidence of god, if I would have evidence of god, I wouldnt be an atheist.

I wouldnt worship him, pray to him, or thank him for anything, but I wouldnt be an atheist.

TiStuff

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#3042

Oct 20 2023 01:06am

Quote (Modulok2405 @ Oct 20 2023 12:02am)

I dont have evidence of god, if I would have evidence of god, I wouldnt be an atheist.

I wouldnt worship him, pray to him, or thank him for anything, but I wouldnt be an atheist.

you dont even know what evidence is and thats typical 'atheist

Modulok2405

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#3043

Oct 20 2023 01:14am

Quote (TiStuff @ Oct 20 2023 09:06am)

you dont even know what evidence is and thats typical 'atheist

I am glad you know. Tell me please.

sirthom

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#3044

Oct 20 2023 02:36am

Quote (Modulok2405 @ Oct 19 2023 11:45pm)

Of course it is. Thats a fact. As long as no evidence for god can be provided, the only right thing is to dismiss the claim.

The golden ratio has entered the chat.

TiStuff

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#3045

Oct 20 2023 08:44am

Quote (Modulok2405 @ Oct 20 2023 12:14am)

I am glad you know. Tell me please.

i have already told you.

MaysLanding

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#3046

Oct 20 2023 08:46am

Have you read any CS Lewis?

SwamiVivekananda

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#3047

Oct 20 2023 09:22am

Quote (TiStuff @ 19 Oct 2023 18:51)

i asked "what scriptures" this would include new testament. i find objections to christianity only (well almost every time) come from the old testament?
btw
old testament is by the law
new testament is by grace (christians taught to forgive)
islam is antichrist of prophecy (muslims taught to hate)
have you seen a muslim to christian testimony? would you like to view one?

I'd love to view one and I guess I misinterpreted what you were asking of me in that original question..apologies!

When I discuss the "Abrahamic faiths" I put them all in one basket because the origin of their beliefs comes from the same place they just become different branches on the same tree.

The reason I added all the talk about Eastern faiths is because they stayed true to their original scriptures "unchanged" for over 3000 years and their "philosophy" has a much more powerful effect on someone's spiritual growth bar none.

There are Hindu's who literally think and lecture about how backwards, degenerate, and false Abrahamic scriptures' are and how they STOLE a lot of their base from the EAST only to change a few distinct things. Like you said the "forgivers and haters" but Abrahamic faiths are like are like US politics, "Pick a side or pay the price".

For example or context Siddhartha Gautama(Buddha) lived 500 years before Christ and yet people think Buddhism stole from Christianity.

Off subject but where did Jesus go in those "lost 12-13 years" to then come back and be a "shining light" to the people of that time.

Did Jesus just magically come up with the concept of resurrection/reincarnation or did he get that from Egyptian beliefs? Why was it removed from scripture? Why did they remove so many books/interpretations from the original texts? Are we followers of Christ not competent enough or deserving enough to see and attempt to understand them?

Even Sigmund Freud argued that what Jesus taught was taught thousands of years prior by the 17th dynasty Pharaoh Akhenaten who went against the "polytheism" of that time and was the progenitor of "monotheism". He was labeled a heretic and basically thrown out of Egypt and probably murdered and almost all "monuments/writings" were destroyed. He did what Jesus did at a time that was even more "barbaric" but laid a foundation for the belief in "one god" the "aten" which was the "sun" itself. People call it sun worship and we've all seen the "Zeitgeist" but when you look at it from a more scientific point of view and theological/political point of view you see that Akhenaten saw how the "priests" of that time convinced people to give all their wealth to "different gods" and it divided and bankrupt the people at that time. So even though he was a "royal" he still knew in 3600 BCE that it was wrong and he was willing to die(murdered by the Amun priesthood likely because all their power was usurped by him and then all power went to one God.

Oh the irony that the greatest archeological discovery of all time was the finding of his sons tomb(Tutankhamun) who led Egypt after his fathers death/disappearance and was forced by the Amun brotherhood to reinstate polytheism.

This is why in Rosicrucianism Akhenaten is revered as the original "Solar Logos" because some say had he never "sacrificed himself" as "Jesus did on the cross" we may have all still been worshipping "many" gods. I know I've gone off on a tangent but I'm sure you can see the context. I'd like to share with you the hymn to the Aten which to me is "praise unto the one and only god". So when people say "nothing is possible without the Son/Sun" they are both correct are they not.

According to science and common sense without the Sun nothing would exist and this planet would be a cold dead rock. Without the Son of God one could not reach the heavenly spiritual bodies.

If you read the entire "Great Hymn to the Aten" you can see all the correlations the Abrahamic faiths "borrowed" and it's night and day. I don't expect you to read it all but I'll share a part of it and see if you can spot the similarities.

Thou appearest beautifully on the horizon of heaven,
Thou living Aton, the beginning of life!
When thou art risen on the eastern horizon,
Thou hast filled every land with thy beauty.
Thou art gracious, great, glistening, and high over every land;
Thy rays encompass the lands to the limit of all that thou hast made:
As thou art Re, thou reachest to the end of them;
(Thou) subduest them (for) thy beloved son.
Though thou art far away, thy rays are on earth;
Though thou art in their faces, no one knows thy going.

When thou settest in the western horizon,
The land is in darkness, in the manner of death.
They sleep in a room, with heads wrapped up,
Nor sees one eye the other.
All their goods which are under their heads might be stolen,
(But) they would not perceive (it).
Every lion is come forth from his den;
All creeping things, they sting.
Darkness is a shroud, and the earth is in stillness,
For he who made them rests in his horizon.

At daybreak, when thou arisest on the horizon,
When thou shinest as the Aton by day,
Thou drivest away the darkness and givest thy rays.
The Two Lands are in festivity every day,
Awake and standing upon (their) feet,
For thou hast raised them up.
Washing their bodies, taking (their) clothing,
Their arms are (raised) in praise at thy appearance.
All the world, they do their work.

All beasts are content with their pasturage;
Trees and plants are flourishing.
The birds which fly from their nests,
Their wings are (stretched out) in praise to thy ka.
All beasts spring upon (their) feeet.
Whatever flies and alights,
They live when thou hast risen (for) them.
The ships are sailing north and south as well,
For every way is open at thy appearance.
The fish in the river dart before thy face;
Thy rays are in the midst of the great green sea.

Creator of seed in women,
Thou who makest fluid into man,
Who maintainest the son in the womb of his mother,
Who soothest him with that which stills his weeping,
Thou nurse (even) in the womb,
Who givest breath to sustain all that he has made!
When he descends from the womb to breathe
On the day when he is born,
Thou openest his mouth completely,
Thou suppliest his necessities.
When the chick in the egg speaks within the shell,
Thou givest him breath within it to maintain him.
When thou hast made him his fulfillment within the egg, to break it,
He comes forth from the egg to speak at his completed (time);
He walks upon his legs when he comes forth from it.

How manifold it is, what thou hast made!
They are hidden from the face (of man).
O sole god, like whom there is no other!
Thou didst create the world according to thy desire,
Whilst thou wert alone: All men, cattle, and wild beasts,
Whatever is on earth, going upon (its) feet,
And what is on high, flying with its wings.

your not the first to say that.

Most Christians/Catholics I know maybe read the Bible in their youth and would struggle to quote even a single line of scripture yet they are good people. They can do the "Our Father" and "Hail Mary" because it's embedded in their memory due to repetition. They "believe" in Jesus Christ but don't actively work to strengthen that bond. They aren't active in the church and only show up to church on holy days. This would be my 3rd time reading the Bible. I did at 13 then 23 and now 33. Yet I'm more excited to read it again then I am anything else because like I said I have a better relationship with Christ.

This post was edited by SwamiVivekananda on Oct 20 2023 09:23am

TiStuff

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#3048

Oct 20 2023 04:46pm

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 20 2023 08:22am)

i dont find it odd at all that ancient man was spiritual. i dont see a challenge for the old testament. certainly dont see one for the new testament.
ill try to read your stuff later and make some specific remarks

TiStuff

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#3049

Oct 21 2023 01:59am

Quote (SwamiVivekananda @ Oct 20 2023 08:22am)

Quote

When I discuss the "Abrahamic faiths" I put them all in one basket because the origin of their beliefs comes from the same place they just become different branches on the same tree.

i disagree islam rejects Christ. islam goes out of its way to reject Christ.

Quote

The reason I added all the talk about Eastern faiths is because they stayed true to their original scriptures "unchanged" for over 3000 years and their "philosophy" has a much more powerful effect on someone's spiritual growth bar none.

a faith based statement. the second part perhaps subjective
2 Corinthians 5:7 King James Version
For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Quote

There are Hindu's who literally think and lecture about how backwards, degenerate, and false Abrahamic scriptures' are and how they STOLE a lot of their base from the EAST only to change a few distinct things. Like you said the "forgivers and haters" but Abrahamic faiths are like are like US politics, "Pick a side or pay the price".

Christianity is always under attack by all sides. this is part of the reason people believe its true.
John 15:18 KJV: If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

Quote

For example or context Siddhartha Gautama(Buddha) lived 500 years before Christ and yet people think Buddhism stole from Christianity

i have never heard that claim.

Quote

Off subject but where did Jesus go in those "lost 12-13 years" to then come back and be a "shining light" to the people of that time.

i dont know

Quote

Did Jesus just magically come up with the concept of resurrection/reincarnation or did he get that from Egyptian beliefs? Why was it removed from scripture? Why did they remove so many books/interpretations from the original texts? Are we followers of Christ not competent enough or deserving enough to see and attempt to understand them?

zeitgeist?

Quote

Even Sigmund Freud argued that what Jesus taught was taught thousands of years prior by the 17th dynasty Pharaoh Akhenaten who went against the "polytheism" of that time and was the progenitor of "monotheism". He was labeled a heretic and basically thrown out of Egypt and probably murdered and almost all "monuments/writings" were destroyed. He did what Jesus did at a time that was even more "barbaric" but laid a foundation for the belief in "one god" the "aten" which was the "sun" itself. People call it sun worship and we've all seen the "Zeitgeist" but when you look at it from a more scientific point of view and theological/political point of view you see that Akhenaten saw how the "priests" of that time convinced people to give all their wealth to "different gods" and it divided and bankrupt the people at that time. So even though he was a "royal" he still knew in 3600 BCE that it was wrong and he was willing to die(murdered by the Amun priesthood likely because all their power was usurped by him and then all power went to one God.

need a better source than something "sigmund freud said"
"Zeitgeist" are you sure the makers of zeitgeist arnt liars? there is a christian youtuber thats done a series on zeitgeist. i will try to dig one of them up.

Quote

Oh the irony that the greatest archeological discovery of all time was the finding of his sons tomb(Tutankhamun) who led Egypt after his fathers death/disappearance and was forced by the Amun brotherhood to reinstate polytheism.

? relevance

Quote

This is why in Rosicrucianism Akhenaten is revered as the original "Solar Logos" because some say had he never "sacrificed himself" as "Jesus did on the cross" we may have all still been worshipping "many" gods. I know I've gone off on a tangent but I'm sure you can see the context. I'd like to share with you the hymn to the Aten which to me is "praise unto the one and only god". So when people say "nothing is possible without the Son/Sun" they are both correct are they not

son/sun sounding the same is just an artifact of the english language
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a summery of the biblical works?
The bible is a collection of 66 books written over a period of approximately 1400-1500 years in 3 different languages across 3 continents by over 40 different authors from every walk of life (from a kings throne to prison cell). Most of whom never knew each other and many of which died a horrible death rather than deny their faith. With no historical errors or contradictions, coming together in one single unified harmonious message.

The creation, fall and redemption
Gods universal love for all humanity
A common message of salvation is available to all who repent of their sins and commit to following God with all their heart, soul, strength and mind.

(a question for you. what do you think of the concept of repentance?)
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here is a link, claims of zeitgeist being challenged
was Jesus a copycat savior?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FR08QtvapM&list=PL1mr9ZTZb3TVOYpPpjYhTUHXycJrY6P2I
Jesus vs. Horus
InspiringPhilosophy

This post was edited by TiStuff on Oct 21 2023 02:18am

SwamiVivekananda

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#3050

Oct 21 2023 10:47am

Quote (TiStuff @ 21 Oct 2023 02:59)

i disagree islam rejects Christ. islam goes out of its way to reject Christ.(I don't disagree with you at all Islam is far more often in the "morally wrong" category but none the less is still an Abrahamic faith)(Look what happens because the Abrahamic faiths can't coexist EVERYONE pays the price. Conversion/Genocide/etc. and now we may be heading into WW3 because deep down both Christians and Muslims want to see their belief "fulfilled". That's why when I saw that Hamas in general wanted to bring in "End Times" they would go to any extent to make it happen i.e murdering innocents/infidel to manifest that reality and now people whose religions came from the Middle East will have worldwide consequences and this is a direct result of both Islam and Christianity converting more then half the planet to their beliefs. Like I said I was raised Catholic but have been studying Hinduism for quite some time now and deep down I know that Jesus Christ is exactly who he said he was but the idea that so many would be slain in his name and more so in the name of Allah really bothers me. We'd have a far richer culture had the Abrahamic faiths left the "non-believers" alone. Instead we now have a cancer that may end all of us. Is that what Jesus spoke of? No. That's why I only follow Christ when it comes to the Abrahamic faiths because I think/believe "scribes of that time" manipulated what he said for their own personal benefit. That's why I studied more ancient mysteries/faiths because there was "spirituality" prior to Christ and the Abrahamic faiths they just eradicated those people across the whole planet burned their holy books and told them convert or die. Off topic but it's like the burning of the library of Alexandria(knowledge lost) and in more modern times when ISIS went around destroying "statues and other ancient artifacts" because it's so much easier to spread your religion by destroying the other ones. That's why I brought up ancient Egypt and India as more so a metaphor of what happens when you don't physically fight back you can have beautiful philosophy's lost to none other then the Abrahamic faiths. Islam continues to do this because they take the hardline approach that's why I support Christianity because they realized they never had to convert people to their "religion" just explain to them who Jesus Christ was and claimed to be and let them decide on their own if they can find Christ in their heart.

a faith based statement. the second part perhaps subjective
2 Corinthians 5:7 King James Version
For we walk by faith, not by sight:)

Christianity is always under attack by all sides. this is part of the reason people believe its true.
John 15:18 KJV: If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.(I 100 percent understand this because I am a true believer in Jesus Christ and anytime I speak his name I'm attacked by either people who are non-religious or people who have "sinned greatly" and refuse to take responsibly for those sins and repent as you said. I repented of every sin I could remember going back to childhood and once I did that Christ entered my heart because truth be told "We are all sinners" it's just hard for people to admit I've done as Satan/Lucifer has done and gone against the Word of God. I also believe that all "sins" carry the same weight spiritually. I'll hear people say "Well I never killed anyone so I'm all good in the eyes of the Lord" and that's just blatantly false and I would never stand before my creator and utter those words, "I wasn't so bad so I didn't repent and I'm not going to purgatory and I'm just going to chill here in heaven with you" God will cast you down for such hubris and for me that ties into reincarnation because you didn't live as the Lord told you so what makes you think you'll have a spot saved for you in Heaven as Christ said if you can't even follow the simplest of things. Simply having good morals and admitting you are wrong

i have never heard that claim.(Because Buddhist literally don't give a fuck and know that if Christ did visit the far East in his "missing years" and then used some of their scriptures to form his own belief that's "good for the human condition and the defeat of suffering". This is why the current Dali Llama is the 14th incarnation of the Buddha who said to his followers I will return again and again until there is "no suffering" which to most people means he will always take form here as Christ does. Living in our hearts and soul(one and the same). Buddhist/Hindus won't kill you for using their faith to bolster your own. Like I said I got closer to Christ because my Swami(Guru) knew I was Catholic and that I would find salvation in Christ so he would never say, "You won't find Christ here you have to read all Hindu scripture" He knew that I was walking with the faith of Christ and was basically like, "You are half way there keep believing in Christ and make that bond stronger and stronger and you will realize God i.e have a deeper relationship with your God

i dont know

zeitgeist? (Yes there are huge holes in the documentary the Zeitgeist and I've seen the debunking video you shared(there's a lot of them) and I support a lot of what they say but I still think there's some truth there and that in ancient times they didn't have what we have now but still spiritually reached the same conclusion which is profound and people should have more respect in that aspect because they had to use a primitive language and symbols to convey a higher truth. Where we have thousands of scriptures across hundreds of religions they had literally nothing to help them believe in God besides worshipping nature because they would die if nature failed them. So yea they had rain gods and fertility gods because they wouldn't exist without them. In my opinion they(Egyptians) probably believed more in their "Rain God" then most Christians believe in "Jesus Christ". Just because they worshipped God in different ways doesn't make them less devoted or lesser men/woman

need a better source than something "sigmund freud said" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moses_and_Monotheism -----I know this is Wikipedia but this is a good summary
"Zeitgeist" are you sure the makers of zeitgeist arnt liars? there is a christian youtuber thats done a series on zeitgeist. i will try to dig one of them up.

? relevance

son/sun sounding the same is just an artifact of the english language (Not a coincidence and I would say the "Sun" gives you "physical nourishment and life" and the "Son" gives you "spiritual nourishment and life". Most should appreciate both but yes the "Son" comes before the "Sun" because if you believe God created the "heavens and the Earth" then God obviously predates the formation of the universe and the "Big Bang". Cause/effect
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a summery of the biblical works?
The bible is a collection of 66 books written over a period of approximately 1400-1500 years in 3 different languages across 3 continents by over 40 different authors from every walk of life (from a kings throne to prison cell). Most of whom never knew each other and many of which died a horrible death rather than deny their faith. With no historical errors or contradictions, coming together in one single unified harmonious message.

The creation, fall and redemption
Gods universal love for all humanity
A common message of salvation is available to all who repent of their sins and commit to following God with all their heart, soul, strength and mind.

(a question for you. what do you think of the concept of repentance?) (Repentance is a major proponent of my beliefs but I think once you truly repent you change your life to where you should have to repent "less" because you truly feel sorry and ashamed in the eyes of the Lord)(I deeply repented even for what most would consider "lesser sins) and to this day I am by no means perfect and one time a Jehovah Witness called me out because I kept saying "Jesus Christ" name in vain but then I told her every time I utter the lords name it is because I am telling God I am not perfect but I'm trying to do my best. Some people take it the wrong way whereas me saying it is a reminder to myself that I can do better and should do better and should always strive to do better. In the end that's all we can do. Try and do good unto others as yee would have done to thyself.

I appreciate this conversation with you! I love hearing other peoples beliefs and learning better ways to become closer to Christ. Like I said I'm not perfect and nobody is so I'm all for conversations about God.

"Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. Again, truly I tell you, if two of you agree on earth about anything you ask, it will be done for you by my Father in heaven.
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