Quote (Black XistenZ @ May 3 2024 09:02pm)
Yanukovych was elected in 2010 with 49% of the vote versus Tymoshenko's 46%, with almost all of the remaining vote going to a far-right ultranationalist who certainly wasn't pro-Russia. So your talking point that a "majority" of Ukraine chose an RU-leaning path is incorrect both factually and in effect. Even more so since a majority in the (also lawfully elected) parliament was pro-EU.
Further note that most of the oblasts Yanukovych had won by solid majorities, like Kharkiv or Kherson, did not defect to the Russian side in February/March 2022, so this notion that every place won by him is overwhelmingly pro-Russian doesn't add up anyway.
Democracies only exist when people agree upon a set of rules for how their representatives are elected and abide by them. There's no substantive difference whether its technically a majority or plurality. Its irrelevant, splitting hairs. Yanukovych was the lawfully elected leader and he represented the will of the voting public. That's how elections work in democracies. Not a mandate from an "overwhelming" voter base, by the candidate with the most votes.
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The choice of direction between EU and RU wasn't the most salient issue during said 2010 election, not least because Yanukovych had promised voters that he would not stand in the way of closer ties with the EU if that was what the people wanted. The lawfully elected members of parliament (who also represent the people) voted for that, followed by Yanukovych breaking his promise and issuing a veto at the 11th hour, pretty obviously because he had received a call from his overlords in Moscow.
If people had grievances with Yanukovych's administration, they were free to vote against him in the next election. Clearly, the more populous half of the country did
not share such a dim view of Yanukovych's anti-EU agenda, because they fought a civil war for 10 years over it.
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The Maidan protests started peacefully, it was Yanukovych who lost his nerves and had his police forces crack down on the protesters with gratuitous violence. Only then did the Maidan protesters respond with widespread violence of their own.
Even the most revisionist history pro-Maidan sources openly admit that the pro-Maidan mob engaged in violence before the government forces responded. They were engaged in a full blown riot and insurrection by the point that Maidan protesters were fired upon, and the pro-Maidan history writers only quibble over whether that escalation of force was warranted.
Its impossible to talk about this without the blatantly obvious parallel to January 6th. Its the
responsibility of an elected government to maintain order and put down revolutions by force. If rioters try to swarm a capitol and overthrow the government, the government is obligated to stop them, and that can include using lethal force if armed attackers are trying to pull off a coup d'etat.
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After Yanukovych had fucked off, even the MPs from his own party by and large voted for his formal removal from office. From a legal perspective, there was nothing undemocratic or even autocratic about his ouster. Even his own bannermen acknowledged with their vote that he had abdicated his duties as president.
Nothing undemocratic or autocratic about ousting a president by violently overthrowing his administration and holding a ""vote"" at gunpoint of a mob?
Oh come on
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One of the reasons a civil war erupted in the following months is that unmarked soldiers from a foreign power had literally invaded and taken over Ukraine's eastern oblasts. :rolleyes:
A foreign power was clearly assisting and micromanaging the Maidan mob, and that mob burned alive dozens of counterprotesters in Odessa without any involvement from Putin's little green men.
They were clearly and obviously at the point of civil war, the fighting had already begun.
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The pro-Russian party was not banned until 2023, after Russia had literally declared war on Ukraine. Many of their politicians had already switched over and ran for the Opposition Bloc since 2014.
Those that opposed the regime openly were arrested and detained, including clergy. Zelensky had an opposition oligarch held for ransom with no accusation beyond being a friend of Putin
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he stuff with the "actual Nazi death squads like it was 1939" is straight Russian propaganda.
The ADL confirmed that during the Maidan an Azov Battalion leader- literally the same guy who did a photo op with Biden to support the troops during the war- was going around passing out copies of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf. How many journalists and dissidents did they assassinate in total, how many red X's are on that Myrotvorets kill list?