If you really think that then I have a bridge to sell you

American state = George Zimmerman's girlfriend - start some shit with an asshole

Iran = George Zimmerman - can't strike at person who made then mad directly

That air plane = Trayvon Martin --gets shot instead of person starting fight

This post was edited by Skinned on Jan 19 2020 11:07am

The real question I have: Trump Nobel for droning Solemeni?

This is the victory Obama could (read should) have had. All he had to do was keep pressure on the regime and let them bumble into making mistake after mistake.

Instead he overcomplicated a very easy position and found himself flying secret cash to Iranian clerics running their best version of a theocratic police state.

If Trump is having success here, just how dumb was Obama?

The time wasnt ripe yet for such a development during Obama's term. For example, the cracks caused by them overextending militarily, economically and politically with their overseas adventures are now starting to show. This couldnt have happened yet in 2014 or even 2016.
Also, we really dont know how Iran would have reacted, and how the domestic situation in Iran would have unfolded, without the fluky shooting down of the airplane.

It's also worth noting that a total collapse of Iran's government is something we should want to avoid at all costs. A total revolution would be very very bad for the stability of the region so keeping total pressure on Iran isn't a good strategy. Applying pressure and then giving them opportunity to alleviate pressure with positive reforms is the best way to go about this kind of situation, which was what Obama's goal was, and was the point of his "terrible deal". The Iran deal was pretty much how Obama operates, by making slow concessions to the other side and giving them an opportunity to act in good faith in return. My biggest point of criticism is how he then handles the other side not acting in good faith afterwards, he basically just lets them get away with it. He did it with Republicans and he did it to some extent with Iran. Obama was too bland to really hold his opposition's feet to the fire.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Jan 19 2020 12:22pm

Rather see them toppled and replaced with a secular government, iraq too.

If any nation in the Middle East is ready for a secular government, it has to be Iran. The chances of a secular state working out and not being swallowed up by islamists at the next best opportunity (like what happened in Egypt or Libya) are highest in Iran. But I still doubt it; I'd still estimate this chance at sub-50%.

Why? Because a fundamentalist theocracy might emerge?

Iraq is begging for one.