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Dec 26 2019 07:17pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 25 2019 05:41pm)
I'm honestly not sure what you're trying to argue. I say "this wasn't a top-down conspiracy from Comey and Obama DOJ" and you respond by copying and pasting things that don't contradict my argument. I never argued that Steele's reports weren't used in the FISA... or that Bruce Ohr didn't keep contact with Steele... or that the DNC/Hillary campaign didn't pay for the dossier.

Here's some more inconvenient facts: Page was some irrelevant adviser with no access when he was on the campaign, Page left the campaign before he was ever surveilled, and Page had previously been surveilled in 2013 or 2014 for talking to Russian spies. The investigation didn't even start with Page.

It's time to accept reality man.

you have said much more than just what you quoted. you have made mostly false or narrated facts. everything else, is just misinformed opinion because you refuse to read the facts and just ask twitter what they think.
i.e. of narrated: you put a lot of emphasis on "Obama DoJ" running Clinton investigation. but, seemingly they play no role in the Trump campaign investigation. (although Clinton had her investigations buried by McCabe and Comey)

once again... the OIG's report says different about Page. it's your media twisting the first part of this paragraph, ignoring the second half.
https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf
Quote
In this chapter, we examine the FBI's use of Confidential Human Sources
(CHSs) other than Steele and its use of Undercover Employees (UCEs) in the
Crossfire Hurricane investigation to determine whether the FBI had placed any
CHSs within the Donald J. Trump for President Campaign or tasked any CHSs to
report on the Trump campaign. We found no evidence that the FBI placed any
CHSs or UCEs within the Trump campaign or tasked any CHSs or UCEs to report on
the Trump campaign. However, we found that the Crossfire Hurricane team did
task several CHSs and UCEs during the 2016 presidential campaign, which resulted
in interactions with Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, and a high-level Trump
campaign official who was not a subject of the investigation. All of the CHS
interactions were consensually monitored by the FBI. We found that the Crossfire
Hurricane team tasked CHSs to interact with Page and Papadopoulos both during
the time Page and Papadopoulos were advisors to the Trump campaign, and after
Page and Papadopoulos were no longer affiliated with the Trump campaign.


let's read this again too..
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2019 12:31pm)
https://dailycaller.com/2018/04/16/michael-cohen-prague-meeting/

Not a specific denial, just a general statement about inaccurate stories.

Durham's statement isn't just a denial of what he claims to be an inaccurate media story... it's undercutting the claims of the IG, and also implicitly making accusations of wrongdoing without providing any evidence.


Quote (tagged4nothing @ Dec 11 2019 12:36pm)
how is he undercutting the IG?

https://www.justice.gov/usao-ct/pr/statement-us-attorney-john-h-durham

Quote
Statement of U.S. Attorney John H. Durham
“I have the utmost respect for the mission of the Office of Inspector General and the comprehensive work that went into the report prepared by Mr. Horowitz and his staff. However, our investigation is not limited to developing information from within component parts of the Justice Department. Our investigation has included developing information from other persons and entities, both in the U.S. and outside of the U.S. Based on the evidence collected to date, and while our investigation is ongoing, last month we advised the Inspector General that we do not agree with some of the report’s conclusions as to predication and how the FBI case was opened.


Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2019 12:41pm)
Horowitz testified that Durham showed him no evidence that disputed the report's findings.


inconvenient facts: the Steele Dossier was the central piece of evidence used to open Crossfire-Hurricane. Comey and his FBI teams knew the evidence to be false, verified the evidence to be false, and continued using it as the essential supporting piece of evidence needed to keep the investigation open.

Carter Page was a source for the CIA from 2009-2013(maybe longer, maybe still...) in which he was investigating Russian Nationals. We didn't and wouldn't have known about this, until the FBI's alteration of an e-mail the CIA sent the FBI, when gathering evidence to open a FISC application.
the CIA's email said Carter Page "was" a source at that time. the FBI changed it too, "not" a source.

So, unless the FBI pulled out something that you know of in 2014 that is criminalizing to Page, i doubt it ever was. (even if.. everything above remains true)
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Dec 26 2019 10:13pm
I can't wait for the Bush administration to go to jail over this.
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Dec 26 2019 11:08pm
Reading your news seems this conspiracy theory got destroyed Monday 23th
"The start of FBI Russia probe, called Crossfire Hurricane, was legally justified and unbiased."
Ofc Truth does not fit with the need of cultists. After this i guess some of them will pickup some 4cham pseudo analysis and jerk circling around it for hours, days... Nothing new.
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Dec 27 2019 05:51am
Quote (inkanddagger @ Dec 26 2019 11:13pm)
I can't wait for the Bush administration to go to jail over this.


You might see some heads roll, ranging from Bush to Obama.
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Dec 27 2019 08:16am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Dec 27 2019 12:08am)
Reading your news seems this conspiracy theory got destroyed Monday 23th
"The start of FBI Russia probe, called Crossfire Hurricane, was legally justified and unbiased."
Ofc Truth does not fit with the need of cultists. After this i guess some of them will pickup some 4cham pseudo analysis and jerk circling around it for hours, days... Nothing new.

that quote is false.
if we are just quoting what things mean though... it means..

"the OIG never found documentary or testimonial evidence from Bill Priestap when he signed the paper"
"nothing more, nothing less"
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Dec 27 2019 08:37am
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Dec 26 2019 08:17pm)
you have said much more than just what you quoted. you have made mostly false or narrated facts. everything else, is just misinformed opinion because you refuse to read the facts and just ask twitter what they think.
i.e. of narrated: you put a lot of emphasis on "Obama DoJ" running Clinton investigation. but, seemingly they play no role in the Trump campaign investigation. (although Clinton had her investigations buried by McCabe and Comey)

once again... the OIG's report says different about Page. it's your media twisting the first part of this paragraph, ignoring the second half.
https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf


let's read this again too..


Not an argument.

I haven't even brought up the Clinton investigation. No idea what you're talking about. Kind of funny to see you post the section that says CHS's weren't put into the Trump campaign... something you called out the NYT as being wrong about in the Russiagate thread.

My mistake. The Page FISA wasn't approved until after he left the campaign, but Halper talked to him while he was still an adviser to the campaign. Still noteworthy that the FISA came through after he left. The FBI clearly wasn't investigating the campaign as a whole, but the four individuals with suspicious Russian contacts.

Quote
inconvenient facts: the Steele Dossier was the central piece of evidence used to open Crossfire-Hurricane. Comey and his FBI teams knew the evidence to be false, verified the evidence to be false, and continued using it as the essential supporting piece of evidence needed to keep the investigation open.

Carter Page was a source for the CIA from 2009-2013(maybe longer, maybe still...) in which he was investigating Russian Nationals. We didn't and wouldn't have known about this, until the FBI's alteration of an e-mail the CIA sent the FBI, when gathering evidence to open a FISC application.
the CIA's email said Carter Page "was" a source at that time. the FBI changed it too, "not" a source.

So, unless the FBI pulled out something that you know of in 2014 that is criminalizing to Page, i doubt it ever was. (even if.. everything above remains true)


Some of your statements aren't entirely true. Just because some exculpatory evidence was found doesn't mean the FBI throws everything away. There's this weird Trump cult desperation to pretend that because Page and Papadopolous denied being part of a conspiracy, that means the FBI was supposed to just take their word for it and drop the case. It's retarded thinking.

Page was an operational contact... based on what the IG says about this, it doesn't appear that Page was part of some investigation. He was a Russophile who kept going to Russia and kept having suspicious contacts with Russian spies in the US. The CIA and FBI interviewed him for years about these contacts, but it's not clear they were communicating this information to each other about him prior to 2016. And... this just helps my argument that the Crossfire Hurricane investigation wasn't some coup attempt. Page was friendly with Russian spies and the CIA/FBI had been keeping tabs on him for years because of it. Then Trump hired him.

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Dec 27 2019 09:37am
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 27 2019 09:37am)
Not an argument.

I haven't even brought up the Clinton investigation. No idea what you're talking about. Kind of funny to see you post the section that says CHS's weren't put into the Trump campaign... something you called out the NYT as being wrong about in the Russiagate thread.

My mistake. The Page FISA wasn't approved until after he left the campaign, but Halper talked to him while he was still an adviser to the campaign. Still noteworthy that the FISA came through after he left. The FBI clearly wasn't investigating the campaign as a whole, but the four individuals with suspicious Russian contacts.



Some of your statements aren't entirely true. Just because some exculpatory evidence was found doesn't mean the FBI throws everything away. There's this weird Trump cult desperation to pretend that because Page and Papadopolous denied being part of a conspiracy, that means the FBI was supposed to just take their word for it and drop the case. It's retarded thinking.

Page was an operational contact... based on what the IG says about this, it doesn't appear that Page was part of some investigation. He was a Russophile who kept going to Russia and kept having suspicious contacts with Russian spies in the US. The CIA and FBI interviewed him for years about these contacts, but it's not clear they were communicating this information to each other about him prior to 2016. And... this just helps my argument that the Crossfire Hurricane investigation wasn't some coup attempt. Page was friendly with Russian spies and the CIA/FBI had been keeping tabs on him for years because of it. Then Trump hired him.


to bold: ok...
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 10 2019 01:03pm)
https://twitter.com/alex_mallin/status/1204453908791406593



1. Obama DOJ had two investigations open into Hillary Clinton in 2016.
2. The Russia investigation didn't even leak during the campaign.
3. Trump wasn't officially being investigated until after he fired Comey.

Barr is a nutjob just repeating Fox News talking points. He has no credibility.

Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2019 10:43am)
There's always accusations in the media... standard policy is for DOJ to not talk about ongoing investigations. And this wasn't swatting down an accusation, it was basically claiming that wrongdoing occurred related to the opening of Crossfire Hurricane, without any evidence presented. It seems like a nakedly political way to blunt the IG report's impact on the endless conspiracy theories.

1. The fact is that there were two ongoing investigations during the campaign into Hillary... and we knew about them during the campaign. McCabe authorized releasing information to the media regarding the Clinton Foundation case. We didn't know about the Russia investigation during the campaign.
2. Can you quote the part of the article where the investigation got leaked?
3. I don't see how this contradicts what I said. Trump wasn't being investigated until after he fired Comey.

Comey wrote memos because Trump is a pathological liar. It was wise for him and others involved in this stuff to write memos.



So they were debating whether to continue the meritless investigation? They considered closing it two weeks after opening?

They gave their reasons under oath as to what the text meant, and it's a much more reasonable explanation than what you've managed to theorize here.

Still waiting on an answer though... how was the investigation a fail safe? Play it out for us... cause the investigation absolved Trump and his campaign of conspiring and Trump is still in the White House. I've been told his presidency has been super successful.

Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2019 12:07pm)
Mueller came out disputing Buzzfeed's story that the president clearly suborned perjury. That was basically the only instance where Mueller's team spoke out like that, because politicians were calling for the information to be released to support impeachment. Totally different circumstances. Prosecutors are supposed to keep their mouths shut, and it's irresponsible to contradict the IG if you aren't ready to present evidence.

1. The fact remains that Clinton faced two publicly known investigations while Trump faced one investigation that wasn't known to the public.
2. We knew during the campaign that Manafort was being investigated I believe, but as to the others, you'll need to post some evidence here.
3. Trump was not the subject or target of any investigations until he fired Comey.

I don't have a problem with Comey leaking the memo in order to reveal Trump's corrupt behavior.

Which claims do you need me to post evidence for?

Quote (IceMage @ Dec 11 2019 12:38pm)
1. Nobody set Trump up. The worst revelation in the IG report is that the FISA warrant(and renewals) for Carter Page were missing exculpatory information... but Crossfire Hurricane was already opened. Stop making shit up when we have a 400+ page IG report in front of us that disputes your conspiracy theories. And the fact that Hillary was also being investigated is relevant obviously.
2. I skimmed the article and didn't see where the Carter Page investigation was leaked. Feel free to quote it here.
3. Investigating campaign associates =/= investigating Trump directly.


to finish with your statements on Page.
the CIA stated Page was a "source" for the CIA for the instance requested. that includes people and time requested. the CIA already answered the question. the FBI altered it to the exact opposite.
i'll link that part later, i'm already a bit late for work.
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Dec 27 2019 10:05am
Quote (tagged4nothing @ Dec 27 2019 10:37am)
to bold: ok...

to finish with your statements on Page.
the CIA stated Page was a "source" for the CIA for the instance requested. that includes people and time requested. the CIA already answered the question. the FBI altered it to the exact opposite.
i'll link that part later, i'm already a bit late for work.


Discussions usually have a certain sequence... I respond to the points in your post and you respond to mine. We weren't discussing the Clinton investigation in the recent posts. You're quoting me from a couple weeks ago.

The language used in the IG report is "operational contact", so why are you quibbling with the IG's language? Also from the language in the report, it just looks like the CIA spoke to him about his prior contacts with Russian officials(who were spies). Nothing in there about him working for the CIA as part of an investigation.

Yes, the FBI agent altered the email. It's one of the many examples of FBI misconduct and sloppiness that Comey and Obama DOJ were unaware of. Which fits neatly into my "no evidence of top-down conspiracy from Comey and DOJ" argument.

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Dec 27 2019 04:15pm
Quote (IceMage @ Dec 27 2019 11:05am)
Discussions usually have a certain sequence... I respond to the points in your post and you respond to mine. We weren't discussing the Clinton investigation in the recent posts. You're quoting me from a couple weeks ago.

The language used in the IG report is "operational contact", so why are you quibbling with the IG's language? Also from the language in the report, it just looks like the CIA spoke to him about his prior contacts with Russian officials(who were spies). Nothing in there about him working for the CIA as part of an investigation.

Yes, the FBI agent altered the email. It's one of the many examples of FBI misconduct and sloppiness that Comey and Obama DOJ were unaware of. Which fits neatly into my "no evidence of top-down conspiracy from Comey and DOJ" argument.

yes, i was pointing out 1 of your prior narrations(as i said i was doing in post).
that it's somehow important to you that the "Obama DoJ" ran 2 Clinton investigations, but somehow not at all important that they ran the investigations against Trump. (you've only mentioned it like 4-5 times in this thread)
and once again... they buried the Clinton investigations. both of them. they then fabricated/altered/omitted evidence to the FISC to obtain a warrant to spy on Page and open the Crossfire-Hurricane investigation.


Why do you believe Comey didn't know about any of this though? that's really the most confusing part to me.
it says quite the opposite in the IG's report. (much of which i've already listed prior. that's why i said to note the titles "leadership", "management", "supervisory". in most cases these words are used, it includes, or is "only" Comey.)

adding this in cause you are seemingly unable to read it when i give you both paragraphs. (just like MSM)
Quote
However, we found that the Crossfire Hurricane team did
task several CHSs and UCEs during the 2016 presidential campaign
, which resulted
in interactions with Carter Page, George Papadopoulos, and a high-level Trump
campaign official who was not a subject of the investigation. All of the CHS
interactions were consensually monitored by the FBI. We found that the Crossfire
Hurricane team tasked CHSs to interact with Page and Papadopoulos both during
the time Page and Papadopoulos were advisors to the Trump campaign
, and after
Page and Papadopoulos were no longer affiliated with the Trump campaign.


This post was edited by tagged4nothing on Dec 27 2019 04:16pm
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Dec 30 2019 12:19am
i saw this on duckduckgo search results a few times while trying to find something, so i finally gave it a watch.
for what it is... i thought it pulled the key points it was making rather well. (title is a little misleading though)


i'm also adding this in as an update. it's a bit old, but it flew over my radar this month.
https://www.judicialwatch.org/press-releases/judicial-watch-court-rejects-fbi-effort-to-keep-secret-records-about-fbi-clinton-lawyer-meeting-on-russia/
Quote
(Washington, DC) – Judicial Watch announced today that U.S. District Judge James E. Boasberg denied a Justice Department effort to block the release of any communications between former FBI General Counsel James Baker and Michael Sussmann, a Perkins Coie law partner and former DOJ attorney, who reportedly met with Baker to share information targeting Donald J. Trump during the presidential campaign. While at Perkins Coie, Sussmann represented the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and Hillary Clinton’s campaign during the time Perkins Coie secretly paid for the development of the anti-Trump dossier the DOJ used to obtain FISA warrants to spy on the Trump campaign. The court specifically rejected the FBI’s argument that it needed to protect the “privacy” of Hillary Clinton’s lawyer.

idk if anyone would even be interested in this.

Baker's name comes up "a lot" throughout the OIG's midyear report and this FISC report. i'm not counting any chickens before they hatch, but i'm curious what comes out here.
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