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Dec 9 2019 12:17pm
Michael Horowitz has released his 476 page report on the FISA warrants by the FBI during the 2016 election, to use of Christopher Steele's dossier, Bruce Ohr & Glenn Simpson and any confidential informants.
https://oig.justice.gov/press/2019/2019-12-09.pdf
https://www.justice.gov/storage/120919-examination.pdf
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Dec 9 2019 12:28pm
to jump ahead to the conclusion and get to the juicy meat of it;



Appendix 1 also provides a very detailed breakdown of the incredibly long list of unsupported statements / falsely attributed statements / false statements in the FISA application on Carter Page
its just a grid showing checkmarks for each type of procedural error / lie and its 6 pages long because there are so many

This post was edited by Goomshill on Dec 9 2019 12:33pm
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Dec 9 2019 12:36pm
tl;dr FISA applications are and have been too loose forever. but tightening them up could let bad guys get away.

typical appeal to fear to clamp down on the 4A.

just get rid of FISA warrants so they can't be exploited. especially for politics.
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Dec 9 2019 12:39pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 9 2019 12:36pm)
tl;dr FISA applications are and have been too loose forever. but tightening them up could let bad guys get away.

typical appeal to fear to clamp down on the 4A.

just get rid of FISA warrants so they can't be exploited. especially for politics.


I think boiling it down would be;

  • FISA warrants completely break the checks and balances of an adversarial defense against illegal surveillance by letting it all take place ex parte
  • To assuage those 4th amendment concerns, the government pinky promised a long list of procedures to protect liberties
  • The FBI then completely dumped those procedures and ignored them and went ahead and spied on folks using bogus probable cause


Carter Page is definitely the person vindicated in this report

This post was edited by Goomshill on Dec 9 2019 12:39pm
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Dec 9 2019 12:41pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 9 2019 12:39pm)
I think boiling it down would be;

[spoiler][*]FISA warrants completely break the checks and balances of an adversarial defense against illegal surveillance by letting it all take place ex parte
[*]To assuage those 4th amendment concerns, the government pinky promised a long list of procedures to protect liberties
[*]The FBI then completely dumped those procedures and ignored them and went ahead and spied on folks using bogus probable cause[/spoiler]

Carter Page is definitely the person vindicated in this report


I quite agree. its yet another avenue for political pendulum swinging to fuck the american people as well. this shit should be cleaned up before we pay for more useless 4a violating investigations.
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Dec 9 2019 01:13pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 9 2019 12:41pm)
I quite agree. its yet another avenue for political pendulum swinging to fuck the american people as well. this shit should be cleaned up before we pay for more useless 4a violating investigations.


IG Horowitz's recommendation was basically a repeat of the Woods Procedures that are already in place.
"Pinky swear with both hands"
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Dec 9 2019 01:15pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Dec 9 2019 01:13pm)
IG Horowitz's recommendation was basically a repeat of the Woods Procedures that are already in place.
"Pinky swear with both hands"


is there realistically any way that the FISA courts could be made illegal through a 4a challenge from SCOTUS?

that's of course not even factoring in the likelihood that they'd take the case.
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Dec 9 2019 01:22pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Dec 9 2019 01:15pm)
is there realistically any way that the FISA courts could be made illegal through a 4a challenge from SCOTUS?

that's of course not even factoring in the likelihood that they'd take the case.


Well on one hand, the SCOTUS easily has the power to declare that FISA courts fundamentally lack the checks and balances required to uphold the 4th amendment and ex parte secret courts are inherently unconstitutional.
Besides the political will of the justices to entertain such a move, the real question is what you said: How such a challenge could ever reach them or give them jurisdiction.
As the FISA courts essentially act without knowledge of their targets and then stonewall every attempt to challenge or discover what they're up to under the guise of national security, challenging them is essentially impossible, which is the very issue at stake to begin with. Even if Carter Page with all the benefit of these IG reviews from both Horowitz and Durham and all the unredacted information wanted to challenge the investigation against him, how would he do it?
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Dec 9 2019 05:21pm
the FISC will not be terminated. i can pretty much guarantee that.
how it works "may" be revised though.

Graham has been involved in the topic for quite some time.
we'll see if he has more than pretty words and what he might offer.
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Dec 9 2019 06:37pm
Russia probe was justified, and....

The Justice Department's watchdog said it uncovered a series of text messages between two FBI agents cheerleading President Donald Trump's victory in the 2016 election.

https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/e8erhr/s_just_got_real_doj_watchdog_uncovers_protrump/

:rofl:
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