Quote (Phaggot @ Aug 23 2019 11:45am)

K so

Even including Michaels last two years (Remember Michael has also played 15 seasons) Michael is way better

Both have an EFG of .505-.525 - this is literally .2% difference over their entire career. I.E They are the same in this stat. Okay??

Harden highest ever scoring season? 36.1 ppg ---- Michaels????? 37.1

Michael avgs 30.1 or31.5(chicago only) on the same efficiency as Harden whos career avg is 24.3. WITH THE SAME SHOOTING EFFICIENCY.

So Michael was able to get an average of 4 extra buckets per game over Harden.

So if it was harden and Michael on the court against eachother, Michael Jordan would average 8 extra points per game than harden, with virtually the same efficiency.


/thread


Anyone not able to realize the mafk just wants publicity for his shit team that will fall in second round as per the youge is jokesssssssss

Quote (Sixers @ Aug 23 2019 04:50pm)

But he didn't....why are you not comprehending this? Scoring can come from 3pt, 2pt, or FT. Scoring =/= just raw shooting %'s.

Harden posted a 61.6% TS this season, which is higher than any season of Jordan's career. Actually, Harden's TS% the last three seasons has been 61.6%, 61.9% and 61.3% all of which are higher than any season in Jordan's career.

In Jordan's highest scoring season and the only season that he scored more than Harden did this year, he averaged 37.1 PPG and posted a much lower 56.2% TS.

Also, let's compare eFG%? Harden wins there easily too, at any point.

I mean we can keep going, but at the end of the day Harden is a better and more efficient scorer. Better player? No way. But was he a more productive/efficient scorer? Yes.

Quote (Sixers @ 23 Aug 2019 11:51)

We aren't talking career, we're talking right now. Morey said RIGHT NOW (as in now and very recent seasons) Harden is a better scorer than Jordan ever was in his career. Compare the last 4 seasons of Harden's career (his prime) to ANY point in Jordan's career, and then run your numbers.

Also, wtf are you talking about? LOL. Harden has a higher Points per shot than Jordan ever had....

Harden's 36.1 PPG season was FAR better as a scorer than Jordan's 37.1 PPG season. That's not even a question, look at the efficiency...

Quote (piatek @ Aug 23 2019 11:59am)

Factoring in FT's while not factoring in the era is hilarious, this is why your argument falls apart.

Jordan scored more, on a better %, than Harden.

As you said, Jordan scored more in his best season, he scored a shit ton more in the playoffs and in his overall career. All of this at a better %, while getting mauled constantly when driving.

If you can can find a way to make an argument about how the player, who scored less, is a better scorer, I will listen. So far you have failed.

Jordan is the best scorer of all time, hopefully one day, as a neutral fan of the sport, I see this toppled. Just like what Messi and Ronaldo have done, destroying records and pushing the sport to greater heights. But it hasn't happened yet.

Harden isn't the best scorer of his era, something you just ignore. He has his style that works for him, the analytical FT and three system, but it doesn't make him score the best. One of the best of his era no doubt.

Quote (Phaggot @ Aug 23 2019 12:05pm)

So Morey wants to pick a snippet of one section where his mans numbers look comparable to make that statement... Okay Great... So like how every sportscasting channel manipulates data to make their guys the #1 in something over some time right? You know Made up bs snippets of partial stats that when combined together make a collage of ignorance.

We have argued about efficiency before

If we are talking efficiency versus points scored then Shaq is better than Jordan or Harden. So lol.

Quote (Sixers @ Aug 23 2019 05:12pm)

So wait, now you're going to blame Harden's higher efficiency as a scorer on the "era"? What the FUCK kind of weak ass bottom of the barrel desperate ass argument is this? I don't even know how that makes ANY sense LOL. Jordan got to the free throw line MORE than Harden did the season when he averaged 37 per game :wallbash:

Literally, are you blind or are you not understanding? HARDEN WAS MORE EFFICIENT SCORING THE BALL - THIS IS NOT AN OPINION THIS IS A FACT LOL. You're looking at raw FG% and i'm talking about overall SCORING EFFICIENCY. Period.

You don't understand that TS% is a FAR more accurate and better way to gauge a players scoring efficiency, than just looking at raw FG%. Harden took more than half of his shot attempts from 3pt, of course his FG% is naturally going to be LOWER as a result. Look at his overall scoring efficiency though, when you factor his 2's, 3's and FT's and he got the job done at a more efficient rate than Jordan did. Hence the higher TRUE SHOOTING percentage, the higher POINTS PER SHOT, and the higher Effective Field Goal %. Period. Stop the nonsense lol.




"pick a snippet of one section where his mans numbers look comparable"

Um, yes, he's saying that right now Harden has evolved into a better scorer than Jordan ever was what's the issue with that. I mean we all know Harden came off the bench in OKC his first few years (though his final season there he had an absurdly efficient season when he won 6th man). Now that he's in Houston as the main guy, his game is at an all-time great caliber level offensively. You compare the past few years for Harden (especially this past season) to any stretch of Jordan's career and Harden gets it done at a more efficient rate while holding a larger role on his teams offensive and STILL being more efficient as a scorer (which is all the more impressive as usually higher usage = lower efficiency).

At the end of the day, the point of this thread was that Morey's claim wasn't all that outrageous. A lot of guys in the NBA have made statements about Harden being the best offensive player they've ever seen. There's no denying Harden's ability to break a defender down and score in a number of ways is all-time great. Hate him for flopping all you want, that's the reality.

Quote (piatek @ Aug 23 2019 12:23pm)

Comparing a 4 year stretch of scoring:

Jordan: 37, 35, 32, 33
Harden 29, 29, 30, 36

Jordan (Playoffs): 43, 35, 36, 34
Harden (Playoffs): 26, 28, 28, 31

Jordan averaged 43.7 on 50% shooting. This while being on one of the most garbage rosters, since you wanted to factor that in (post #132). Woolridge, Corzine, Macy etc.

You seem to be caught up on TS%, like it means you are the better scorer, even though Jordan scored more. You are ignoring FG%, you are ignoring style of play between eras. Refeering and defending is different, you can't hypothesise about how many FT's Jordan would have now.

Jordan has better scoring seasons and career than Harden.

Also:

Harden's 4 best TS%: .634, .620, .605, .584
LeBron's 4 best TS%: .668, .649, .619, .618

Quote (Sixers @ Aug 23 2019 12:53pm)

Oh you want to compare those 4 seasons of scoring? Okay, check it:

Harden
2019: 36.1 PPG, 61.6% TS, 54.1% eFG, 1.48 PPS (24.5 FGA per game)
2018: 30.4 PPG, 61.9% TS, 54.1% eFG, 1.51 PPS (20.1 FGA per game)
2017: 29.1 PPG, 61.3% TS, 52.5% eFG, 1.54 PPS (18.9 FGA per game)
2016: 29.0 PPG, 59.8% TS, 51.2% eFG, 1.47 PPS (19.7 FGA per game)

Jordan
1990: 33.6 PPG, 60.6% TS, 55% eFG, 1.40 PPS (24.0 FGA per game)
1989: 32.5 PPG 61.4% TS, 54.6% eFG, 1.46 PPS (22.2 FGA per game)
1988: 35.0 PPG, 60.3% TS, 53.7% eFG, 1.43 PPS (24.4 FGA per game)
1987: 37.1 PPG, 56.2% TS, 48.4% eFG, 1.33 PPS (27.8 FGA per game)


Since some people don't seem to be up to date on modern analytics and terms:
TS = True Shooting Percentage
eFG = Effective Field Goal Percentage
PPS = Points Per Shot
FGA = Field Goal Attempted

So yeah, as you can see Jordan just simply shot the ball a whole lot more during that 4 year stretch. That's it, his raw PPG averages are only higher because of volume production, it's not based on efficiency. Look at the gap in PPG compared to the gap in Field Goals Attempted per game, Jordan took FOUR more shot attempts per game over this period of time and only averaged 3 more points per game (that's horrible FYI). Then again, as you can see Harden's points per shot is much higher every season, because he gets more done without relying on being a volume scorer.

Also, can we please not forget that the ONE season that Jordan averaged 37.1 PPG (on an absurd 27.8 shot attempts per game) he was on a fucking losing team that went 40-42 (and got swept in the first round of the playoffs since you want to bring that up)? Meanwhile Harden is averaging 36.1 PPG at a more efficient rate taking fewer shots leading a 53 win team. I'm not saying, i'm just saying. Facts are facts.

Quote (Sixers @ Aug 23 2019 05:53pm)

Oh you want to compare those 4 seasons of scoring? Okay, check it:

Harden
2019: 36.1 PPG, 61.6% TS, 54.1% eFG, 1.48 PPS (24.5 FGA per game)
2018: 30.4 PPG, 61.9% TS, 54.1% eFG, 1.51 PPS (20.1 FGA per game)
2017: 29.1 PPG, 61.3% TS, 52.5% eFG, 1.54 PPS (18.9 FGA per game)
2016: 29.0 PPG, 59.8% TS, 51.2% eFG, 1.47 PPS (19.7 FGA per game)

Jordan
1990: 33.6 PPG, 60.6% TS, 55% eFG, 1.40 PPS (24.0 FGA per game)
1989: 32.5 PPG 61.4% TS, 54.6% eFG, 1.46 PPS (22.2 FGA per game)
1988: 35.0 PPG, 60.3% TS, 53.7% eFG, 1.43 PPS (24.4 FGA per game)
1987: 37.1 PPG, 56.2% TS, 48.4% eFG, 1.33 PPS (27.8 FGA per game)


Since some people don't seem to be up to date on modern analytics and terms:
TS = True Shooting Percentage
eFG = Effective Field Goal Percentage
PPS = Points Per Shot
FGA = Field Goal Attempted

So yeah, as you can see Jordan just simply shot the ball a whole lot more during that 4 year stretch. That's it, his raw PPG averages are only higher because of volume production, it's not based on efficiency. Look at the gap in PPG compared to the gap in Field Goals Attempted per game, Jordan took FOUR more shot attempts per game over this period of time and only averaged 3 more points per game (that's horrible FYI). Then again, as you can see Harden's points per shot is much higher every season, because he gets more done without relying on being a volume scorer.

Also, can we please not forget that the ONE season that Jordan averaged 37.1 PPG (on an absurd 27.8 shot attempts per game) he was on a fucking losing team that went 40-42 (and got swept in the first round of the playoffs since you want to bring that up)? Meanwhile Harden is averaging 36.1 PPG at a more efficient rate taking fewer shots leading a 53 win team. I'm not saying, i'm just saying. Facts are facts.

Quote (Waifu @ Aug 23 2019 06:09pm)

harden took more 3s this season than Jordan did his entire career. that is what makes him the better player, so curry>

Quote (Sixers @ Aug 23 2019 05:53pm)

So yeah, as you can see Jordan just simply shot the ball a whole lot more during that 4 year stretch. That's it, his raw PPG averages are only higher because of volume production, it's not based on efficiency.

Quote (piatek @ Aug 23 2019 01:12pm)

You just showed Jordan being a better scorer...