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thesnipa
#21 Jul 9 2019 09:31am
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Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 9 2019 09:25am)
globalization in general killed middle america, nafta was just one prominent example. in fact, job losses to china over the last 30 years far exceed those to mexico anyway.



so the real way to have stopped the bleeding would have been to slow down globalization itself, which btw did indeed pick up pace during the 90s. switching to a massive tariff regime could have slowed down globalization, but at a great loss in overall wealth and at the risk of particular countries falling behind technologically.

essentially, globalization is good for the welfare recipients in western countries because basic goods become cheaper and because the state is raking in higher taxes from higher overall economic activity, it is good for the very rich, and it is good for the high-education tech workers. and it is good for the emerging middle classes in countries like China or India. it massively sucks for the westerners in the middle of the income bracket.

you can even see these trends reflected in the current american political system: the Democrats are traditionally the party of the poor, but are increasingly becoming the party of choice for tech billionaires and college-educated people as well, while the GOP increasingly becomes the party of choice of middle america, both in a geographical and income sense. it's all a part of the shift of the main political cleavage, away from the old left-right paradigma, towards the new open-closed political scale.


no. just no. you're reading a correlation. increase in technology was the causation. globalization was made possible by that technological advancement.
Black XistenZ
#22 Jul 9 2019 10:12am
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Quote (thesnipa @ 9 Jul 2019 17:31)
no. just no. you're reading a correlation. increase in technology was the causation. globalization was made possible by that technological advancement.


which technology are you thinking of that caused globalization?

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jul 9 2019 10:32am
ofthevoid
#23 Jul 9 2019 10:26am
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Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 9 2019 06:31pm)
no. just no. you're reading a correlation. increase in technology was the causation. globalization was made possible by that technological advancement.



The race for Competitive advantage fathers globalism. Production migrated to cheap labor markets. Tech certainly has a role to play in this all but at the root it’s still the age old minimize costs which leads to higher profits causation.

Globalization has lifted most boats worldwide. Even the middle class in the west has reaped the benefits. It’s nice to have quality electronics like iPhones or dell laptops assembled in China when if those same products were made here they’d be double probably. It’s also nice to be able to buy 10 t shirts made in Bangladesh or or buy 60 cent avocados from Mexico.

In the short term it’s wonderful for the middle class but as jobs keep leaking to the 3rd world the negative consequences are starting to be noticeable.
Black XistenZ
#24 Jul 9 2019 10:40am
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Quote (ofthevoid @ 9 Jul 2019 18:26)
The race for Competitive advantage fathers globalism. Production migrated to cheap labor markets. Tech certainly has a role to play in this all but at the root it’s still the age old minimize costs which leads to higher profits causation.

Globalization has lifted most boats worldwide. Even the middle class in the west has reaped the benefits. It’s nice to have quality electronics like iPhones or dell laptops assembled in China when if those same products were made here they’d be double probably. It’s also nice to be able to buy 10 t shirts made in Bangladesh or or buy 60 cent avocados from Mexico.

In the short term it’s wonderful for the middle class but as jobs keep leaking to the 3rd world the negative consequences are starting to be noticeable.


This.

Also note the famous "Elephant Graph":

thesnipa
#25 Jul 9 2019 10:48am
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Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jul 9 2019 10:12am)
which technology are you thinking of that caused globalization?


Increase in technology is the only way globalization is possible. worldwide shipping improvements, worldwide communication improvements. people in brazil are good at growing palm. people in Iowa grow pigs well. people in iowa can't grow palm tho.

you're not inherently wrong on all counts, you'd just looking at it incorrectly. the starting point and ending point are the same whether you protect or whether you allow free trade. but in a free trade model you have general improvement of your own economy while some sectors leak slowly. in a protectionist environment you artificially prop up sectors until they collapse upon themselves.

tariffs cause market collapses. because the goods are still demanded, but the competition leads faster to automation with a set pricepoint caused by said tariff.

General motors, General mills, all corporations (in general) are living in a certain meta. they have employee costs, and they know automation costs. when there's free trade they stick with workers and empower them, when there isnt the eliminate the workers.

not to get too terribly specific, but machines like automated box packers, sealers, wrappers, labellers, etc. these are all OLD technology. none of these is revolutionary by any means. but from the time they first started to be implemented the endgame was set.

NAFTA caused a slow loss of jobs, to mexico, to china etc. but if instead we protected, we'd have lost ALL the jobs a short time after. or so many that it makes no difference. we'd have gotten robots earlier, we'd have gotten more automated factories earlier, etc.

Lastly unions, especially the UAW, played a role. they priced themselves out of jobs as much as NAFTA slowly did.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Jul 9 2019 10:26am)
The race for Competitive advantage fathers globalism. Production migrated to cheap labor markets. Tech certainly has a role to play in this all but at the root it’s still the age old minimize costs which leads to higher profits causation.

Globalization has lifted most boats worldwide. Even the middle class in the west has reaped the benefits. It’s nice to have quality electronics like iPhones or dell laptops assembled in China when if those same products were made here they’d be double probably. It’s also nice to be able to buy 10 t shirts made in Bangladesh or or buy 60 cent avocados from Mexico.

In the short term it’s wonderful for the middle class but as jobs keep leaking to the 3rd world the negative consequences are starting to be noticeable.


I quite agree, and we should remove excess labor from the pool to stem the bleeding.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Jul 9 2019 10:50am
djman72
#26 Jul 9 2019 10:49am
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Quote (thesnipa @ Jul 9 2019 11:48am)
Increase in technology is the only way globalization is possible. worldwide shipping improvements, worldwide communication improvements. people in brazil are good at growing palm. people in Iowa grow pigs well. people in iowa can't grow palm tho.

you're not inherently wrong on all counts, you'd just looking at it incorrectly. the starting point and ending point are the same whether you protect or whether you allow free trade. but in a free trade model you have general improvement of your own economy while some sectors leak slowly. in a protectionist environment you artificially prop up sectors until they collapse upon themselves.

tariffs cause market collapses. because the goods are still demanded, but the competition leads faster to automation with a set pricepoint caused by said tariff.

General motors, General mills, all corporations (in general) are living in a certain meta. they have employee costs, and they know automation costs. when there's free trade they stick with workers and empower them, when there isnt the eliminate the workers.

not to get too terribly specific, but machines like automated box packers, sealers, wrappers, labellers, etc. these are all OLD technology. none of these is revolutionary by any means. but from the time they first started to be implemented the endgame was set.

NAFTA caused a slow loss of jobs, to mexico, to china etc. but if instead we protected, we'd have lost ALL the jobs a short time after. or so many that it makes no difference. we'd have gotten robots earlier, we'd have gotten more automated factories earlier, etc.

Lastly unions, especially the UAW, played a role. they priced themselves out of jobs as much as NAFTA slowly did.


:thumbsup:
Beowulf
#27 Jul 9 2019 12:53pm
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claims they had a falling out 15 years ago and haven't spoken since and was "not a fan"

wonder what that falling out was over
QcSoHot
#28 Jul 9 2019 02:53pm
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Not really seeing any crimes of moral turpitude here
Sounds like he helped out some students with well needed funds for books and clothes and movies
Goomshill
#29 Jul 9 2019 03:53pm
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https://www.ocregister.com/2019/07/08/relatives-identify-17-year-old-girl-fatally-shot-by-fullerton-officer-in-anaheim/
https://www.ocregister.com/2019/07/09/replica-firearm-found-next-to-17-year-old-girl-shot-dead-by-fullerton-officer-das-office-says/

unremarkable story here right
17 year old girl leads police on a chase down the freeway at high speeds, rams a cop car, emerges and walks towards the cop while pulling out a gun, raises and points it at the cops and gets shot to death
cops recover the gun at the scene and it turns out to be a replica beretta, almost indistinguishable from a real gun.
al sharpton and the girls family put out a statement saying:
"We ask for prayers from the community as we work with Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jarrett Maupin, and the National Action Network to find answers to what appears to be another unjustified shooting of a young person of color. In the coming days, we will release the results of a secondary autopsy and the facts as they become known to us"
Seems like a pretty bog standard black lives matter story, same thing we've seen over and over many times, except maybe slightly notable because its a young black woman instead of a young black man

but wait, time for the twist
here's a family photograph, the black girl shot by police is on the left

https://i.postimg.cc/jqHm27PN/williams.jpg
and more;
https://twitter.com/GeneNBCLA/status/1148401449010782208


thesnipa
#30 Jul 9 2019 04:02pm
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Quote (Goomshill @ Jul 9 2019 03:53pm)
https://www.ocregister.com/2019/07/08/relatives-identify-17-year-old-girl-fatally-shot-by-fullerton-officer-in-anaheim/
https://www.ocregister.com/2019/07/09/replica-firearm-found-next-to-17-year-old-girl-shot-dead-by-fullerton-officer-das-office-says/

unremarkable story here right
17 year old girl leads police on a chase down the freeway at high speeds, rams a cop car, emerges and walks towards the cop while pulling out a gun, raises and points it at the cops and gets shot to death
cops recover the gun at the scene and it turns out to be a replica beretta, almost indistinguishable from a real gun.
al sharpton and the girls family put out a statement saying:
"We ask for prayers from the community as we work with Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Jarrett Maupin, and the National Action Network to find answers to what appears to be another unjustified shooting of a young person of color. In the coming days, we will release the results of a secondary autopsy and the facts as they become known to us"
Seems like a pretty bog standard black lives matter story, same thing we've seen over and over many times, except maybe slightly notable because its a young black woman instead of a young black man

but wait, time for the twist
here's a family photograph, the black girl shot by police is on the left

https://i.postimg.cc/jqHm27PN/williams.jpg
and more;
https://twitter.com/GeneNBCLA/status/1148401449010782208


https://pa1.narvii.com/7181/2b9a66de32bd5045e224257e1ab06172ec581f3fr1-220-221_128.gif


Quote
Rene Alvarado


@Radiospotz
5h5 hours ago
More
Replying to @GeneNBCLA @NBCLA @AnaheimPD

None of the explanations the police are giving makes any sense whatsoever. I think it was a case of road rage by the officer for being hit. How old is the officer, is he on some steroid program? She looks more like a little kid then anybody who would even have a toy gun.


https://twitter.com/Radiospotz

god i hope that's a russian farm acc.....


Boy Al Sharpton is hard up for work...
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